0:00:00 - Joanna
Welcome to the very first episode of Her First podcast.
0:00:04 - Michelle
Her First is a podcast to help online business owners, coaches and creators gain the confidence needed to build a successful business while creating sustainable lifestyle balance. We're here to help you prioritize yourself in your business and life. In this episode, we're going to introduce ourselves and talk about why we decided to create Her First. Let's get into it.
0:00:26 - Joanna
Thanks, Michelle. It all started when we met at Kajabi Hero Live in Austin, Texas. We really connected about both being business owners and also wanting to have balance in our lives and do things a little bit differently. Instead of just going through that grind culture of working 24-7, we both wanted to be successful business owners that also had a life and great experiences to look back on. We listened to a talk by Ellen Yin from Cubicle to CEO. She talked a lot about being content creators and how to monetize your skill set, and one of the things we were both inspired to do was to try to pitch ourselves to Beyond podcasts. So we started an accountability group together where we were going to meet together and encourage each other to pitch ourselves to go beyond podcasts. But Michelle actually had a different idea.
0:01:21 - Michelle
Yep, absolutely, and I roped Joanna in, thank goodness. I love the idea of pitching yourself to get on other people's platforms. It's a great marketing, networking and opportunity gift in a huge way, and we're still going to continue to do that. But I felt that whenever we got together, we could just chat. We were talking about all these different concepts. We shared a lot of values.
There were a lot of things happening in the business or online space, or sometimes even pop culture, that I feel like we both came to, not necessarily just even like an amicable agreement, but that we were both able to bring passion and care and interest to the conversation, and I just thought that we would work really well together in this podcast environment, being able to co-host, move off of each other, be able to interview guests, be able to bring very different dynamic backgrounds, experiences, perspectives hopefully that, of course, we'll be sharing with you over time.
And this idea of her podcast was born and I didn't just want to focus on being on other people's podcasts, but specifically to have our own platform to talk about the things that we cared about and continuing to share ideas and concepts that we are seeing cropping up that maybe others aren't dealing with in the same way.
There's lots of marketing and business podcasts out there. There's lots of health, fitness and self-care podcasts out there, but finding a platform in which we are bringing those two concepts together, I think, is really important, because we are not single dimensional people, we are multi-dimensional. We are multifaceted, and something that I was seeing coming up all the time with the business owners that I was connecting with was that whatever was happening in their personal lives was somehow coming up in their business and professional lives, and so we're able to bring both sides of the picture together, both of those perspectives, into what it is that we're going to talk about on this podcast, and be able to speak to those multi-dimensional pieces of each of us in a unique way that we can bring everything into one identity, one person, and have us show up best in our professional lives, in front of our businesses, as well as in our personal lives, and balancing those things.
0:03:48 - Joanna
Awesome, that's so great. Thanks for sharing that. When we really sat down and started to brainstorm actual names for what we call it because we all know how you name something is so important it gives that first impression we both really connected on this idea of starting to figure out how to make yourself a main character in your own life not taking that supporting role, not taking a backseat, but actually putting yourself first. And so we're brainstorming all different kinds of things related to main character and googling different ways to call a main character, like an ingenue or a star or different things. We kind of hated all the names and we took a step back and said let's keep thinking about this.
So my husband because we live in a small house and you can hear everything everywhere he overheard our conversation and was thinking about himself and what he thinks we should have called it and he came to me and he said what about her first? Because you're putting yourself first, you're putting yourself in business, you're putting yourself first in life. You're not taking that backseat. You could call it her first. I brought that to Michelle and we talked about it and we both just immediately connected with the idea because we felt like it worked for us and for this podcast on so many different levels.
0:05:08 - Michelle
Yes, and I'm excited about the name. I'm really glad that he was able to come up with that and provide that because, to be completely transparent, I am not good at naming Like I'm really bad about coming up with really cool unique names. Most of my products and programs in the past have been incredibly boring, so it's something I'm working on, but I think her first really identifies that one. We're speaking predominantly to women, because most women struggle with this concept of putting themselves first in their business and in their lives and in relationships and in the way that we show up, because we've been conditioned not to and to be able to sacrifice and to be able to give and to be able to support everyone else. But oh, we don't really matter, so let's put ourselves to the side for now. So I think it's a great name. I'm glad that we were able to chat about it. I really loved our brainstorming session, but, it's true, we didn't come up with anything good.
So I'm really glad we had an answer that came from outside.
0:06:06 - Joanna
Came from the outside. That's so great, so I'd love to hear your story a little bit, Michelle, and your journey about how you started to prioritize yourself in your business and in your life. Can you tell me about a time that you weren't doing that?
0:06:21 - Michelle
Yes, I mean you can think of so many times when you kind of put yourself to the side, even in small little ways, whether that's in a classroom setting, or whether that's in your friendships, or whether that's at work, employment with other people, and so many instances really come to mind when I think of this. Now, since I've had so much time to self-reflect and look back and in a future episode I'm definitely going to share more of my experience with burnout and how I was neglecting my own self-care, my own needs, and really actually toning down my own voice, my own expression, to let other people shine in some way, shape or fasten. And so we'll get into that further in future episodes. But for me, when I think of this question, I think of all of those times in my business when I have sacrificed, maybe even the financial sale, the partnership, the collaboration, the client, the product, the program, because I thought that, oh, someone else needs that, oh, someone else deserves that, oh, someone else is doing that already better than I can, and I kept putting it off, putting it off, putting it off. And for some reason it just kind of snuck up on me one day when I realized wait, why am I not stepping into that main character role in my business? Why am I not stepping into that place of ownership that I do this really well? I can deliver on this product, I can deliver on this program, I can help this client, I can make this sale, I can build my business, I can grow my business.
In that role of whether you want to call it CEO or solopreneur or main content creator, however you self identify I wasn't acknowledging that this was something that I was doing as a career path that I had chosen for myself, and that I needed to make this a legitimate business, not just for the success of myself and the financial move forward, but also because I have seen other products and programs on the market. And it's not a comparison of better or worse, but it's a comparison of acknowledging that I can do this, or I can do it even in a more in depth, more thoughtful, more compassionate way. And so when I wasn't prioritizing myself in my business, it showed up in a lack of sales, it showed up in a lack of confidence, it showed up in inconsistency and all of the ways in which I knew I was supposed to be working, or I was supposed to be creating content, or I was supposed to be making the sale, I kept avoiding, or I kept procrastinating, or I kept putting off, or I would have people come to me and I knew that I could help them, but I thought that maybe this other natural path or functional person or maybe this other health coach could do it better than I could. So I'd pass off the client.
And it's not to say that you shouldn't know your scope, because your scope is really important. Do I have the competency to actually help and support this person? Yes or no? But it was more so a matter of fear. It was more so a matter of not identifying and acknowledging that I had to own my place and ownership of my business and to finally prioritize the financial success of my business. And now I act with that intention in mind. And now I act with knowing that this is a huge part of my path, my career, what I am doing with my life, and so I'm going to make it legitimate for lack of a better word but also that I can deliver on it so much more and better and just in a way that I never expected from myself or that I didn't think that I was capable of doing.
0:10:29 - Joanna
That's so interesting. I think there's definitely this layer of knowing what you're actually good at and being able to walk in that right, Because you don't have to be the best at everything to be great at something. And that self-awareness, I think, is really key here, where you're not going to come out and say, yes, I can literally do everything under the sun, but that you can actually own what you're confident in and go out in that and put yourself first in those things. And as a business owner, that can either mean not offering certain things or not offering certain things or hiring out for help in those areas that aren't your strength to round out your business. So for you, I want to know was there a moment in your life where you knew things needed to change, where you needed to stop underplaying your own value and take that front seat in your business?
0:11:27 - Michelle
Yes. So I would say it's a series of moments, because as I look back on my past and reflect on other things, it's hard for me to always pull out one instance right. But there's a series of events and there's a series of changes in perspective and changes in belief patterns I think that we all undergo when we're making any evolution, any change, any growth. It's not usually like heads and tails flip of a coin, but getting to the point of realizing that no one else was going to come in and own this for me, that no one else was going to help me reach a goal, and that's considering investing in thousands of dollars in courses, thousands of dollars in coaches, and always looking externally for the answer, the solution or what I was hoping to accomplish. It's not to say that those things don't have their place, because I've also grown so much and realized certain things and gained confidence by working with a coach who say, for example, has challenged me to increase my prices or challenged me to see something in a different way. But really, when I was able to take that full, radical responsibility to know that no one was going to come in and save my business, no one was going to come in and just hand me clients. No one was going to come in and create the content for me, and that I had to take the ownership over the role, take the ownership over what I was doing, take the ownership of how it was showing up in content creation and marketing, which is something that I feel like I still haven't nailed yet.
But I'm now taking the steps necessary in order to make the change. And so that's when I feel like I started to know that I needed to do things differently, because for me, for so long again, I was kind of putting it externally oh, it's not that big of a deal, oh, they can do this, oh, I can pass this here. And for that reason, I kind of looked for external reasons, circumstances, anything else to blame. And when I shifted the blame away from other people and not to say that I blamed myself, but when I stopped blaming and kind of released that victim mentality, that's when I feel like I was able to actually take the steps necessary, and that's when I identified that, oh, this is something I need to change about myself, this is something I need to change about my circumstances. This is something I have the power to do and therefore I need to do it.
0:14:00 - Joanna
It's so easy in those situations, if things are going well in your business, in your career, in your life, to look at all the external factors, like if only I had that particular education, or if only I had someone to magically give me $25,000 so I could fund my business and get it going or get that thing. It's so easy to look for those external things and those are the hardest things to actually fix. We can fix ourselves, our own behaviors, our own reactions, like how we respond to things or what we do. That's 100 times easier. But it's so easy to want to say it's this external factors fault that I'm not seeing that success. You were talking a lot about steps like knowing you needed to take steps to put yourself first. What were some of those steps that?
0:14:54 - Michelle
you took what you mentioned in regards to the external versus the internal. That has a lot to do with the actions that we take as a result of wanting that change. Some of the steps that I started to taking were in my personal life and in my professional life, because I do believe it's not to say. There's a saying that how you show up in one place is how you show up everywhere else. That's not always the case. I do think that we shift and we morph and we change a little bit. I'm going to be different with my husband than I'm going to be with my family or my clients, or even on this podcast. There are certain ways in which we show up and that's okay because I've reconciled that. We have a little bit of a different identity in different circumstances, but I'm still me. I'm still my own person, I'm still Michelle Pualani and this is how I'm showing up and I can have these different facets of who I am in all these different places. In order to take those steps, I have to reconcile who I am being and my identity. Yes, there were steps that I took on a professional level, on the day to day in my business and in my work, which looked like making the connections, pitching myself more often, consistently creating a content schedule and showing up to that, knowing that I had to learn the sales psychology tactics, knowing that I needed to tap into my messaging, knowing that I needed to connect directly with my ideal client, my prospect, my audience, and being able to meet them where they are at. But I couldn't do any of that really until I connected with myself on a deeper level to start to identify that I had the confidence, the ability, the know how, the where with all in order to do those things, in order to look at the steps, we have to look at the two almost like prongs of ways that I'm taking action, one of which being the personal right, the ways in which I was listening to mantras or listening to meditations or listening to empowering conversations, to start to change my belief system, to change my habits, to change my patterning on a personal level, so that, when I showed up in my business, I was able to show up with the confidence, to show up with the belief that, no, I deserve to be here, I am worthy of being here, and then take the resultant steps, like I mentioned earlier right Networking, collaborating, starting a podcast, like all of those little things, I think some of that starts with a plan.
There's a strategy that we have to consider of what's the outcome, where are we headed, what's the ultimate goal? Then? What are the smaller steps along the way that I can take in order to get there? Does that mean that I research collaborators, people in my industry that I can partner and connect with? Who I'm going to pitch for the podcast, for the guest experts, for this or that or the other thing? If I'm going to find clients, where am I going to find those clients? Which platform are they on? Am I going to go to live events? What are the networking opportunities? We have to strategically think ahead and say this is what I'm looking to accomplish and do. Then what are the smaller steps that I can take along the way it really started in that personal way? How do I need to grow? What do I need to change about the way that I think about the world, my belief system, in order to be able to take those action steps in my business?
0:18:34 - Joanna
Yeah, it's really hard to look internally. That's the hardest thing to really try to understand the psychology of why you do things, why you make choices, why are you actually doing that. And understanding that can be hard but really empowering For you. Now you've taken these steps, probably still working on it, but how is life different now that you've really started prioritizing?
0:19:00 - Michelle
yourself. I'll get again more into my story in later episodes, but I struggled with burnout, I struggled with anxiety attacks. I struggled with that lack of showing up to those things that I felt like I needed to do. With that, there was a lot of insecurity, a lot of doubt, a lot of frustration and emotion and anger and resentment that came out of being in that stuck place of feeling like I wasn't doing the right things, feeling like I'm not good enough to be doing this, feeling like I am not qualified to be a coach, feeling like who am I to own a small business? Who am I to be in the online space? Who am I to be creating content and showing up in this way? Now, the difference really is that ownership. No, I'm not the most successful person out there. No, I'm not the most followed person out there, but, independent of all those things, I still have value. I still have worth. I am still a person that can connect with another person.
When I started looking at the circumstances in that way and breaking down the barrier, the facade that I feel like we create, especially in the digital space of, oh, this is someone's amazing life and they make millions of dollars and they travel all around the world and they do all of these things. I could never connect with them, I could never be that person, I could never speak to their audience, because they're at just such a different level. When I started breaking down the barriers again from my personal life and started stepping into the confidence, stepping into the radical responsibility, stepping into the ownership, stepping into the identity of being a strong leader and a business owner, that's when I started to just feel the difference of the impact, feel the difference of the connections that I was making and almost have a right to be here. It was like giving myself permission to be present and with that comes the emotions of security and enjoyment and fun and playfulness and success and all of those things that feel so much lighter. Even starting this podcast, one thing that we've discussed is we want this to feel playful, we want it to feel light. Yeah, we're going to get into some deep topics. Yeah, we're going to talk about some things that are really challenging, but at the end of the day, we're here for enjoyment, we're here for fun, we're here for playfulness, we're here to live our lives.
And I think that's the biggest difference is that I feel like I was removed from living my life and I was avoiding, and there was so much about the burnout, so much about the anxiety that really made me feel like I wasn't showing up in the ways that I wanted to.
And then there was all this shame and this guilt around it and all of this negative thought patterns and negative self-talk that really took me down. And so now it's not to say that that stuff doesn't come up, because that's still a part of the human experience, but I feel so much more alive and invigorated than I ever have before by transforming, changing, evolving and growing in this way. All that to be said, I know that putting yourself first is really important for me, but I know that it's really important for you as well, Joanna. We connected on that level in a big way, and I think that, again, that's the reason behind this podcast, that's why we're doing this, this is why we're sharing it, because it's not just an idea, a concept that is someday, not just an unrealistic picture, but that we want to ensure that we ourselves are living business and life this way, but also that others are as well. So can you tell me a little bit more about a time in which you were not prioritizing yourself, and what that was like.
0:23:10 - Joanna
Yeah. So this is such an interesting topic for me to talk about because, truly, I think not putting myself first started as soon as I was self-aware as a child. I grew up in a pretty conservative religious environment and one of the things that was taught to me since the beginning was that it's your basically job in life to put other people first. You know the concept of the first shall be last and the last shall be first, like you're supposed to live a completely selfless, self-sacrificing life and serve those around you. And it, you know, is this concept that you'll get rewarded for that one day by always putting yourself last. And it's really interesting. You think about learning that as a five, six, seven-year-old. That message of you put yourself last, you put yourself last, you put yourself last, over and over and over again. And that's just such an interesting way that I grew up putting, showing off or having too much pride was always an issue. And what's really interesting is I'm a very, very driven person. I've always wanted to do my best in everything, and there are so many times in my life as a teenager, as a child, as a young adult where I was hurt or like pushed out of things for being that way in my life. So not only was it like taught to me theologically but it also worked itself out in real life situations. So this is kind of a funny but like sad, horrible thing.
I used to play guitar and I'm a singer and naturally one of the things that I did was sing and volunteer on worship teams. So I was a volunteer worship leader starting probably at 16. In my life, between about 16 and 22, like that phase of my life, I was actually kicked out of my volunteer worship leading experiences three times. So three times in my life I got kicked out of these experiences Like no joke. And the reasoning was because the leadership at the time didn't think my heart was in the right place. They thought I was volunteering my time to sing music on a worship team to glorify myself, right like so.
I was, you know, different ages of my life, between 16 and 21, getting this message that in those cases I, you know I also did like theater and things like that.
So I took voice lessons, like I took what I did really seriously and I applied what I learned in voice lessons to how I sang at church. And I think there was this idea that if you were like too good or showing off that was bad, you know. So, so so many times in my life if I edged in that way of looking like I might be putting myself first, I would lose something for that, and that's a theme, you know, that carried on into my career in different ways and things like that. But I always thought, you know, in my life I'm going to put everyone else first, push, you know, make other people successful around me, and I'll just be here In the end like, oddly enough, that's what I basically do in my business is I help other people create courses, grow their social media, like like it is kind of funny, but I do it in a different way now.
0:27:12 - Michelle
Yeah, and I knew that about you of the success piece, right, other people, you're putting them forward, you're making them look good. That's, that's a big part of what you do now. It's almost like you took this piece of yourself and turned it into your strength. And it's funny because I feel like we do that a lot, especially as business owners, especially in how we just grow as adults. We take those strengths and we turn them into something that we can do, something that we can leverage, something that we can offer.
But I didn't know this religious background and for you, I mean, this is a, you know, a deeper rooted stemming thing from childhood that you were told it's not okay to be prideful, it's not okay to own what you're doing, it's not okay to show up with confidence, it's not okay to put yourself first.
And what a tailspin of how that changed your life and how it evolved into what. What it meant showing up in all of these different ways. And I think that there are a lot of ways in which we ourselves have been conditioned, and until we start to question that conditioning, until we become self-aware enough to identify this is where I started, this is where it came from, getting to a point of saying, okay, is this something that I want to change? Is this something that I want to evolve? So, as you grew up, as you moved away from that space and into adulthood and working, when was it for you that you recognize this is something that I do, I sacrifice, I do not put myself first. When did you recognize that it was something you wanted to change about yourself?
0:28:49 - Joanna
Yeah, so honestly that moment for me was not that long ago. I had a situation at a startup I was working at that was just like a big wake-up call for me, like I don't think I really realized I did this and I was working at this startup and I put everything into it and making it a success. And we were very successful in a lot of ways. I was very successful at what I did growing that brand from scratch. Right, we grew that band from scratch. I put so much into it and I always just did what needed to be done to make the company successful, did what needed to be done, whatever it was. My job was marketing and communications, but whether it was product testing or customer service, like I did anything. We really blew up during COVID and I worked, I don't know 14 hour days. Because we had such amazing success during COVID, because we were doing online learning, it like blew up and then I'll probably tell this whole story in another episode, but I had this moment with my boss at the time where I just realized that he did not value anything I had done.
It became very clear I was never going to be rewarded for the hard work, the blood, sweat and tears that I put into it and it was one of those like the world was spinning moments, like something happens and you're just like is this really happening? I was so hurt by it that I actually immediately that day looked for new jobs and I gave my. Two weeks later, gave my two weeks, no desk. I just couldn't be there anymore because I realized that I had put everything, put this job first over my family, over myself, for nothing, for nothing, for no one actually valuing what I did. It was a huge wake-up call. I think it honestly wasn't until years later that I really understood the reasoning behind the way I was and how I played a role in getting myself there. At the time it was just like they're all bad, they don't appreciate me. Do you know what I mean? But like later on I was like, oh, like I played a role in this because of my mindset.
And there are things I can change about how I show up in life that won't put me in this position again.
0:31:34 - Michelle
And identifying that for you, was such a pivotal moment in how you transformed, how, again, personally you evolve, but also professionally made choices, and I think that we can all relate to what you went through in some way of someone not seeing you, someone not valuing you, someone not hearing you and thinking that it's okay and you putting all of the time, the energy, the blood, sweat and tears to make it happen and realizing this isn't gonna pay off. This isn't what I thought it was. I felt that in employment in a lot of ways totally different scenarios but we often invest so much of ourselves because we're conditioned to sacrifice, because we're conditioned to serve other people, because we're conditioned to nurture in a big way, as we want to show up as our best, we also have a certain expectation for perfectionism for the work that we do. We wanna deliver on that. We want to show up the best that we possibly can, but sometimes it leads to the detriment of our success and how we connect with other people.
So I think that's a lot of the motivation for maybe those listening for content creation, for online business ownership, for starting a business, is because we want to be the ones who see and reap the benefits and the rewards of the time and energy that we're investing. So how can we be in charge of our destiny with that and how can we be the ones who are moving ourselves forward? So the time, the energy, the 14 hour days hopefully not always 14 hour days, but how can we use that to transform our lives, to transform our futures, to transform our businesses? So, as you were me having that recognition, as you're becoming more self-aware to these things, what were some of the steps that you took, whether that was personally or professionally, to make that transformation, to take that next level step?
0:33:29 - Joanna
I think the first thing that I needed to do is actually identify what it is that I wanted, right, like, actually think about okay, if this isn't about what everybody else wants, like, what is it that I want? What do I enjoy doing? What do I want for me and I'm a marketing person, right? So the way I thought about it was, like my personal work brands you know what I mean. Like, what do I want everyone I work with to know me for? What do I wanna be known for? And what is it that I want to have accomplished?
And I think one of the things that I did wrong that aided in that like not being appreciated, was just doing what needed to be done, no matter what the cost, versus really strategically picking and choosing actions that would make a big impact and then making those connections for the people around me. So, one thing that there was a woman that I worked with at a different company and she's one of those people that I never really thought got a lot of work done all of the time, but she always got promotions. She always did so well. And one thing she said to me once I was like you know, what do you do? Like, how does this work for you? And she said she's like I pick one thing a week that like I'm gonna get done. That I know will make a big impact on this business, because if I can do one thing, if I focus on getting that one thing done a week, that's gonna make a big impact. People will notice that when I think I'm always the like I have to get a hundred things done to like show how valuable I am and like get all of these things done, but they might not even be that valuable thing.
So I think I started in my life, like when I got that new job, I was like I'm gonna just focus on the most important things that need to be done and I'm going to be annoyingly obvious about making those connections and meetings and being like this is what was completed. This was the impact on the business. This is what completed. This is the impact on the business. And I just started really thinking about my personal brand and what I wanted that to be. And it made a really big impact in what will be my last corporate job. But in my last corporate job I ever had. It made a big impact in how it was treated, how I was respected and how that happened for me. Like I said, I'm gonna put myself first, I'm gonna put myself in the center of this and not everybody else, and it really did change things, yeah, and look at the ripple effect of it Is that it likely impacted the business.
0:36:16 - Michelle
It improved relationships, the connections, collaborations, networking. That happened because of that was powerful. So I think that a lot of times when we ourselves are thinking about putting ourselves first, we think it's selfish, we think that it's a certain sense of like what is it gonna do for us? And that might be where the motivation comes from, like deciding first what did you really want out of life? What did you want your personal identity?
your work identity. What did you want that to look like? But then the ripple effect of that positive stepping into that place and that ownership, all of the ways in which it had. So you looked to other people and taking action steps. You connected with those people who are successful. You learned from what they did and you started applying it to yourself as well. So, as you've applied, this talks about your last job. Now you're in business ownership for yourself. How does that show up in your life now and what is different about that? What is different in your business?
0:37:17 - Joanna
In my business. That becomes really different, right? What's fun is I have a team, I have a business partner, we all work really closely together and now it's almost like I'm that person that needs to prevent other people from making the mistakes and create like a working environment that doesn't encourage that. Right, because corporate culture can be really toxic and corporate culture can. The reality is, corporate culture benefits off of people like I was, who are willing to do way more than they should for what they're getting done.
Anytime I got a promotion in my corporate career, they almost always hired two to three people to replace my old position and I always took that as like a badge of honor, like, oh, look at me. Right, like they needed three people to replace me. But actually it's more like, oh, good for that corporation for getting me to be do the work of three people. Right, like that's actually what happened. So part of it is making sure you create an environment which that doesn't happen to people, naturally, right, creating really clear job descriptions and work to be done, clear expectations, so an employee isn't doing the guesswork.
The other piece of that, I think, for me is actually just giving myself permission to just make decisions and not look to so many people for feedback, for answers Like just actually saying no, this is what I want the business to be, this is the decision I want to make, when so much of me would in the past, would never say out loud what I wanted, like not actually share what I wanted things to do, what I wanted those decisions to be, and realizing if something's not the way I want it, I can change it. And I should just say I want to change it and then take the steps to change it versus just dealing with it or letting it happen. And I think that that journey that I went on definitely equipped me for owning a business and, you know, becoming a successful business out of the gate, right In terms of making sure, right, we're charging appropriately for our services and that we're making the decisions that need to be made to build a really successful ecosystem.
0:39:57 - Michelle
Sounds like there's a little bit of underlying value that's come out of that. Right, your experiences, although maybe challenging as you were moving through them, they really taught you to own what it is that you do well, to learn from your experiences in the past and to create the company culture that you want to create, create the working environment that you want to create, be the decision maker, be the leader that you have to be in your business on a consistent basis, and so it's really empowered you to step into and to own these things. And again, you're still learning. We all are still learning all the time. Yeah, but knowing that you want to create, cultivate and establish a certain container or certain environment in which then you feel comfortable executing, and you want to model that for other people, right, you want to take what wasn't great about the company culture. You want to transform that and change that so that your contractors, your employees, your team, your partner they all feel like they're contributing in a healthy and positive way. So thank you so much for sharing that experience with us.
0:41:02 - Joanna
Oh, no problem, and that got me thinking of like something that's really strange about being a business owner and putting yourself first. When I left my full-time job, my boss at the time he said to me he said, Joanna, you work way too hard to work for someone else. Like that's what he said to me about it. He wasn't mad at me for leaving any of those things. He was like you work too hard to work for someone else.
And what's interesting is like being a business owner, now my job in some ways is to put other people first. That sounds weird, but like it's my business. So my team being successful, my business partner being successful, all of that now does actually directly benefit me, right, which is a very different concept. When you're working in a corporate career, you doing that doesn't benefit you, but now it does. It leads me to a place where I need to do that in a healthy way, right, like I need to put those people first in a healthy way. That isn't actually forgetting my identity, and that's the really fascinating part to uncover next in my life.
0:42:15 - Michelle
Yeah, and I think there's the thing about it. You're hearing your story, getting to share some of mine and thinking about a lot of the business owners and content creators who struggle with this is, again, it's not a selfish choice and it does not mean that you neglect other people. And I think that people have this black and white perspective sometimes of self care and prioritizing yourself. Putting yourself first means that everybody else gets neglected, and that's just not the case. We have an opportunity to equally invest in those things that we're paying attention to while also benefiting. You saw the ripple effect benefit when you actually started thinking about how you could best show up for yourself and that benefited the company, it benefited your coworkers, it benefited your productivity, it benefited so many other pieces In our business. When we put ourselves first, it benefits the company, it benefits our clients, it benefits our audience members, because we're showing up in the best way that we can and we're showing up fueled, reinvigorated.
We're creating healthy boundaries and that's also giving other people permission to give boundaries. And I'll finish on this note of I was just doing a guest presentation and there was a conversation about the DMs and clients and needing to respond in a quick manner and how can I get back to these while also still protecting my own boundaries? And when I phrased the question in a way that made them think about how that person felt in a similar situation, or their client or a friend or whoever. You're dealing with this and there was relationship is that when you give yourself permission to hold a boundary, you also give them permission to hold a boundary, and so we're really giving so much to that other person because then they can own that independence, they can own putting themselves first as well, and again it's that ripple effect, that kind of moves out from there, that I think is so pivotal that we often forget.
0:44:23 - Joanna
Yeah, definitely. So I'm so excited about our podcast and that we decided to do this and that we took the step to figure all of this out. And you know, while again, I'm someone who's just always been behind the scenes of things like this and behind the curtain organizing it, setting up the days, getting other people to film, like that's what I do all of the time setting up people for success, and now we're doing it for ourselves. But what I want to know is what are you kind of excited about for this podcast?
0:45:00 - Michelle
Well, one I'm super excited about how this is your opportunity to shed a spotlight on yourself, to get yourself out there. We've had this discussion of now you're creating your own business and, yes, it's in partnership with someone, but you still have to think about your own personal brand, your own identity, how you show up in the world, and we've talked about is this the right time? Should we be doing this right now? Yes, we've got so much else going on, but if we don't start now, then maybe it's a year, five years, 10 years down the line and we haven't done that thing because it's too busy or because we don't have the time. You know, we're always kind of making those excuses, and so I think that you know for you owning that and saying, no, this is when I am going to build my personal brand and this is how I can show up in the world.
I think I'm super excited about that and I'm really excited about us to be able to have these conversations, to talk about topics that, again, I feel like are out there, like what we're talking about is not groundbreaking, it's not completely brand new, but we're approaching it from a different lens and I think that we're in this change this evolution, this growth as a culture, as a society, as an online space to lean into what it means to prioritize yourself, what it means to put yourself first, what it means to practice self care in a really healthy, deep and meaningful way.
And we're evolving as a society to accept more of these things, to change the working environment, to change the expectation, to get rid of the perfectionism All of these things that we struggle with. We're really changing that narrative and I feel like we can contribute to that narrative and really enhance the shift, this space of growth, this opportunity for each of us to identify the ways in which we can be better in the world, be better for ourselves and really help us kind of live along. So I'm excited to contribute to that in some way.
0:46:55 - Joanna
Awesome. One thing I'm really excited about is to get more and more of your perspective on things, Michelle. One of the things I noticed about you when we first met is that you have this very fascinating way of seeing like very different perspective on things. Like someone will share a story and the way you respond will make you think differently about that story, but not in like a threatening. You know, not like a threatening way. You know, sometimes people you share a story and they're like oh, that's not true, it's really like this, and it can be like offensive. You do it in a way that just makes you like oh, that's an interesting way to think about it, to help like open your mind, and I think you'll do that for me 100 times on this podcast and I think you'll also do that for our guests that come on. And I'm excited to get that perspective very intentionally as we go through our episodes.
0:47:54 - Michelle
So if someone subscribes because we hope that everyone listening today does subscribe to our podcast what can they expect to get in future episodes so they can definitely expect to get some real world and life examples of what it means to put yourself first, because I think, again, this concept is somewhat nebulous and I also think it's really idealized. I think that there is so much rhetoric in the online space, visuals, conversations about an ideal and even like the four hour work week, even jet setting all over the world, even living a certain pampered lifestyle, dropping thousands of dollars on massages and luxury, this and everything else, and not to say that that's a bad thing and not to say that anyone should have wants that, because great, that's what you want, that's what you want to work towards. But I think so many of us just want to live our lives Like. We want to live our lives in a way that is in alignment with I hate to say it, but almost like a quote unquote normal approach. We want to work, we like our businesses, we want to show up in our businesses. We want to deliver on what it is that we do. We want to have a healthy partnership and relationship. We want to. Maybe we have kids, maybe we have dogs, whatever we're taking care of. We want to nurture in some way. We also want some pastime, some activities, and we want these different pieces of our lives. I think we want them now and not just someday.
What people can expect to hear from us is how they can realize and actualize these things in their life, using real-world examples, using stories, using education, using tools, using resources, about how they can implement on a daily basis and not just again wait for someday or think that, yeah, this is something that you can do when you make $3 million or this is what you can expect when you reach this goal. No, it's. What can you do now? What can you think about differently now? How can you start to adjust, change belief patterns and everything else when it comes to self-care, when it comes to goal setting, when it comes to marketing from your expertise, when it comes to what we're dealing with on a daily, real-world, everyday laundry, dishes, traffic, all of those things that make up our lives. That isn't idealized, that isn't again someday or theoretical. It's a very real-world, applicable advice, concepts and stories that I hope that you, me, us, we can all connect with.
0:50:39 - Joanna
Yeah, I really hope when someone listens to us, listens to our guests, listens to what we have to offer, that they're going to walk away with realizing that they can actually build the life that they want, whatever that is, if you want. If your dream life is working 14-hour days and jet-sitting around the world, then I want you to have that. If your dream life is to just be a freelance graphic designer and work part-time and just do the projects you love, if that's what you want, I want you to have In, I think, the next episode that we're going to create together, I'm going to be talking about a mistake that I've made in my career and that I've seen lots and lots of women make, that prevent them from living that life. I'm really excited to share that. It's something I'm pretty passionate about, something I do. If you're really curious, if you go watch some of my series on my TikTok Joanna at Work, you will hear me talk about it. I'll be talking about it in a future episode. I just want women to see this, because when I saw this mistake and it's related to not putting yourself first but when I made that change in my life, I started seeing it everywhere. I was like, oh no, and I read the data about how it predominantly affects women, but then I saw it in real life, in real time once. I stopped making these mistakes and I want every woman to be able to do this.
I'm the worst. I go to PTA events and I hear a woman talking about something and getting passionate and I'm like you know, you could start a business doing that. I don't have to. I'm the worst. All the husbands of my town are going to. I think they hate me. I walk by. They're like oh no, get Joanna away from them, because my wife's going to become a business owner now. Because that's what I do, but that's what I want. I want to do that. I do that in real life with women. I want to do that to women everywhere.
0:52:49 - Michelle
Empower them. Just introduce that. There's an alternative. I think what you said is just we want certain things in our lives and whatever we want is valid. That can be sitting on the couch and watching Netflix at night. We have this idea of a dream life and ideal life, and it is different for all of us and, knowing that that potential is there and absolutely possible, we have a lot of very exciting topics coming up. We've got a lot of content coming your way. Make sure that you subscribe to her first and definitely leave us a review. We would so appreciate it. It really helps us get this message out and give permission to more people to put themselves first. Give permission to more women to start practicing that self-care, to start releasing that perfectionism, getting rid of some of that insecurity, that doubt, and helping empower them to take the actions that we know that they can.
0:53:48 - Joanna
Awesome as we close our first episode. Michelle, do you have any questions? Any final thoughts?
0:53:54 - Michelle
Final thoughts is just that I'm excited to move through this. I'm excited to be new as this. I think that we don't give ourselves enough permission and opportunity to be new, to be an amateur, to be not at the thousands of followers, millions of dollars, scaled business. We're all heading in a similar direction of growth and we all hit those milestones at different points.
A lot of us are scared, a lot of us are insecure and a lot of us feel like we can't show up and own wherever we are in the process, especially at the beginning, when I first launched my business, that was something that I thought that I had to look a certain way. I thought that I had to present a certain way. I thought that I had to do these things to be in business. I want everyone listening, I want you, I want us to really believe and feel that, no matter whether we're new, no matter whether we've been doing this for 10 years, it doesn't matter we can be wherever we are. Whatever that moment is exactly at that time, we can simply experience it. What are your final thoughts?
0:55:12 - Joanna
My final thoughts, after going through all of this, is one more thing that I'm super excited about. I think you and I are both on a journey right now. We're on a journey, we've decided we're doing it, we're putting ourselves first. We've decided we're creating this podcast. I think we are going to grow and change and evolve as we create this content, as we learn from each other and our guests and all of that, I think, at the same time, the people who listen, our subscribers. If you're listening now, I want you to be on that journey with us too, and I'm excited to see how we as a community can lift each other up and power each other to create that life that we want for ourselves. Whatever that is, I think we're really going to start a special community together.
0:56:02 - Michelle
Beautifully put and that is such an important part of this process is really connecting with people and really building relationships. I feel like I found that in you and I hope that every single community member that we have as a part of this process feels connected to that larger mission, to that growth, and does come along the journey with us, because we want to see them move forward and we want to hear about that evolution and we want to see that growth and we want to see that transformation and cheer them on every single step of the way. Thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you, Joanna, you're amazing. I'm so excited for this. We will definitely see you next time and I want you to just consider what is one thing that you can do today to prioritize you first in business and life.
