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Joanna Newton: In today's episode, we're going to talk all about finding your best fit clients, how to go through a sales process, actually make sure you're finding [00:01:00] clients that are the right fit for you and your business.
Joanna Newton: This idea is so, so, so important because I know when, When you leave a nine to five or you have a side hustle and you go to work for yourself, it can be really easy to just go from having, you know, one boss to like 10 bosses and have your clients actually rule your life. But your goal here as a business owner, as a service provider, as someone who's working with Clients specifically is to find people who are the right fit for you.
Joanna Newton: So we're going to talk a lot about like your mindset that you need to have while you're working to find those clients. And then we're also going to talk about some red flags that I see that tell me someone is not going to be a good client for me and my business. So I want to start off. with mindset and how you go about finding clients to begin with and what that is.
Joanna Newton: The first thing that I know in [00:02:00] myself makes me make bad decisions in a sales process is when I am desperate for money. If I'm doing interviews and going through that process, if all I'm thinking about is my bottom line and like, if I don't make this sale, I'm not going to be successful. That's when I know things are going to go haywire in a sales conversation because my mindset isn't right.
Michelle Pualani: We were just having this conversation about mindset and energy, and there's something to be said about how you show up to a sales call, how you put together their proposal, how you're even connecting with those people in the first place. What energetically are you drawing into you? How are you showing up and how is that being received? And therefore, how are you attracting the audience, the community, or the clients that you're hoping to connect with on a deeper, more intimate level when it comes to sales? to working with them or getting them to convert into your digital product, your course, your membership, your group program, or again, one to one [00:03:00] services. But the way in which we're being is going to dictate that in a big way. And it's not something that I considered when I was first launching my business. I was just like, okay, well, I'm a practitioner. I do this fitness thing really well, and I want to have a more comfortable, more free lifestyle in order to move about the world and just kind of like regulate my own schedule, not have to rely on classes or studios or being told how much I'm going to make by teaching. Actually offering the service that I was doing. So that's what really brought me to the online space. But I didn't think critically about how it was really showing up in that content creation, In your digital products and everything that you're putting out into the world energetically how we show up is going to be what's received or perceived by someone. And that can turn people off. It can draw people to you, or it can just kind of make them feel potentially uncomfortable with the sale.
Michelle Pualani: So when you're showing up oftentimes with what Joanne is talking about in terms of that [00:04:00] needy, have to type of energy, it can be a turnoff. I like that this is described in this way is that when you're dating someone in that dating environment, you set up a date with someone, you're really excited, they're attractive, you've had good conversation so far, and you show up to that first date and you thought everything was going to go really well, but they come in like really super hot and they're just like, When can we get together the next time?
Michelle Pualani: Do you want to move in with me? Like, are you going to marry me now? And you have that kind of like needy, I have to please energy. It can be a turnoff. And so thinking similarly about how you're approaching your sales conversations and how you're pitching clients. And so we're going to get into what that means when you're aligning your niche and designing and thinking about what that ideal client is going to look like for you.
Michelle Pualani: What that means when you're having the conversations, like Joanna mentioned, red flags to look out for when it comes to, Hey, you've started talking with a client and before you've even signed the contract, [00:05:00] these are the things that are coming out, things to look out for as a freelancer, as a coach, as a service provider, especially in the online space.
Joanna Newton: Yeah. And that mindset is going to set up so much about the relationship, One, it's going to depend on whether you get that sale or not. It's going to depend on how that whole client relationship goes. And if you think about the fact, if you're going into your sales conversations, just desperate to close, desperate to get.
Joanna Newton: the money, the final sale, you will probably be more likely to go lower than you want to price wise. Maybe even in a way that's not good for your business, not profitable for your business. You'll offer them whatever they need to, to make that sale, whether you actually want to offer those services or products, you'll be like, Oh, I do that.
Joanna Newton: You know what I mean? Like, that's something I do. Even if it's something you don't want to do, you'll say yes, just to close that sale. and they'll also, like you were saying, they're going to feel that from [00:06:00] you that you just want to close that deal. If they sense that from you, They will likely, if you give them an itch, take a mile, right?
Joanna Newton: Want every service at a really small price and, and not in a way that's actually beneficial to your business. So the hardest thing that about all of this is I think the best time to be focused on trying to find your best fit clients and really closing sales. Is when you're not desperate for that money, right?
Joanna Newton: Like if you're desperate for that money, you're going to be in a very different mindset in your sales conversations than if, you know, you have steady income and to be able to have that mindset of like, this sale is not make or break. If it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be. And I'm going to, you know, close another one that's going to be a better fit for me.
Michelle Pualani: Also, I think that mindset is your perception of yourself, how you're showing up in your business. And especially as women, we struggle with this and I hear it all over the place in my masterminds and my coaching [00:07:00] programs and with the clients that I've worked with as well, that they feel in some way, shape or form unworthy.
Michelle Pualani: And that can come out in a lot of different ways. Maybe it's that you don't feel like you have the experience. Maybe it's that you don't feel like you can deliver on what they're asking. Maybe it's It's that you just feel nervous about the time investment that it's going to take you in order to do it.
Michelle Pualani: And so can you deliver on the timeline and structure that they're looking for? And a lot of those are excuses and they're almost a sense of whether you are competent or capable enough, whether it's conscious or whether it's subconscious, but you're questioning your ability to show up and be the person that you know that you want to be or deliver that service or produce that product or Deliver on the project that you were hired for whatever that looks like so how you're actually approaching this with the mindset and perception of yourself and your belief in yourself is going to affect how you show up to these conversations and whether you're going to fulfill the sale or not. [00:08:00] Being mindful of really how you are seeing yourself, how you're perceiving yourself as the authority or the expert, or as someone who's actually capable and competent to deliver on what it is that you're. offering in the first place.
Joanna Newton: Yeah, your mindset, like your belief in yourself, your confidence in that's going to show through, whether it's like an in person call, a phone call, a zoom call, like that confidence is going to come across in those conversations. one thing to realize if you're a service provider, you're starting to sell your business.
Joanna Newton: It's okay if that confidence grows with time, your first sales call and your hundredth sales call aren't going to be the same. And as you start to get clients too, you're going to have that confidence going into it when you know you've delivered, right? When someone says, can you do this? And you've done it 10 times already.
Joanna Newton: You're going to have the confidence to do that. A lot of times the problem comes with that first sale. And I know when I started, [00:09:00] freelancing, I was focused on growing a like social media business. So I was helping people create content strategies, grow, grow social media. Up until that point, I had only done it for large companies, right?
Joanna Newton: I hadn't helped a lot of small businesses. I didn't really have a social following of my own. And I would struggle being confident that I had done the work, even though I had done the work. You know what I mean? And something I wish I did early on when I started was really Owned the value that I brought to my full time jobs and took that confidence into those sales conversations.
Joanna Newton: It's something that I finally learned, right? And now I've been, a full time business owner for a year. My company is about a year and a half old, When I go into sales conversations, I have a lot of confidence that I'm like, I should have been like this from, from day one.
Joanna Newton: You know what I mean? But I learned and, and grow, grew over time. But looking back, I'm like, I should have gone with confidence. Like I grew a corporate social media [00:10:00] channel by this much. That's a big feat. And I should have owned that more, you know?
Michelle Pualani: One of the quotes I've heard that I really like about this topic is that we are conflating experience with ability You may not have the experience yet in entirety, but that doesn't mean that you don't have the ability to deliver, you know, when I first got my yoga teacher training certification, for example, I didn't have the experience teaching yoga classes, but that doesn't mean that I wasn't capable or I didn't have the ability to teach those classes. If I had sat back and said like, okay, well, I just have the certification and training. I need to teach a hundred classes or 30 classes before I actually have the experience in order to get paid to do this. That would have taken me a long time, and I probably would have pushed it back and pushed it back and pushed it back.
Michelle Pualani: Instead, right when I got back from my teacher training, I set up the audition at my studio to teach. I taught that class and I started getting paid to teach right [00:11:00] away. And I did workshops and one on ones and teaching larger classes. And of course my career expanded and grew from there. But just because I didn't have all of all of the experience, hundreds of hours teaching in the past, didn't mean that I wasn't competent and capable to deliver on teaching that class.
Michelle Pualani: Did I get better over time? Absolutely, as you should intend to do. But knowing and having that perception and belief system within yourself that you can deliver on whatever it is that you're doing, or that you're going to figure it out along the way. Because a lot of times, if It's also okay to not know everything from the get go, depending on especially what you're freelancing or coaching in. You know, they always say with coaching that you just need to be a little bit ahead of your clients. And yes, that's totally true and keeping that in mind, but also I've started to have the perception of I don't actually even have to be on the same level of my clients because what I'm offering with coaching is so different. I'm not [00:12:00] saying this is what I did, so follow this blueprint and you're going to be successful. I'm helping them realize their own roadblocks, their setbacks, their difficulty with focus and their challenge with decision making. And I'm coaching them through that process. So I'm not even on the same timeline, or I'm not even on the same linear progression as they are. I'm in a totally different linear progression, my own. And so I'm going to be comparably in all different places. And it's like a, it's more like a scatterplot than it is a line graph at this point. And so The way in which you're supporting someone, if you can offer them help to overcome the challenge, the road back, the problem that they're having at that time, then you are absolutely and completely qualified to be able to support them through whatever that process is.
Joanna Newton: Yeah, and having, having that confidence. I think about this all the time because, I'll be on calls talking to people about something very specific that they want to do inside Kajabi maybe [00:13:00] it's not something we've done for a client before. But I know between my knowledge, my team's knowledge, maybe we haven't done that before.
Joanna Newton: I know we can do it. Do you know what I mean? Like, I know we can figure it out. if it's outside of our scope, find someone who could help with that small piece, right? If it's a, if it's a bit of code or something we haven't done before, like, I'm pretty confident. Not pretty. I'm very confident. See, I just did it to myself right here.
Joanna Newton: I'm really confident that we can figure out how to solve that problem. And one of the things that I think is really important to point out, especially for female entrepreneurs to really jump into that confidence. When they talk about people applying for jobs, they don't know the exact percentage, but most women won't apply for jobs They're not 100 percent capable of doing all of the job responsibilities. Whereas a man will look at a job description and if, if they can do half of it, they're going to apply. [00:14:00] They're going to just put it out there and see what happens, right? And so as women, if we want to be building businesses, being our own boss, making money like a man, putting yourself out there to do things.
Joanna Newton: That are outside of your normal scope, but you know you can rise to the occasion like we should do it and we should have the confidence and the strength and the mindset to just go for it because our male counter points are doing that and we will be missing out and leaving the money on the table if we're not doing that.
Michelle Pualani: So what you're hearing is that finding the best fit clients for you is going to take some It's going to take getting to understand yourself and what you can do and also anchoring into your own self worth. Because I think what we do, and I've done this in the past, especially as I was segwaying into marketing and business consulting, not only taking on anyone, and I will admit I had a lot better luck.
Michelle Pualani: better clients than I know I've [00:15:00] heard some horror stories. Like I I tend to attract really gracious people, which is great. And I'm so grateful for that. But I was still overextending myself because I didn't feel like I was worthy of what I was getting paid. So if I was making 3, 000 a month with a client, I thought that I had to over deliver and work and hustle and do so much more than what we had agreed to in order to deliver on that fulfillment of the payment. now with where I'm at in terms of the self worth, what I offer is so different than what I feel like I used to offer because of the understanding of what I bring to the table when it comes to knowledge, knowledge, experience, wherewithal, coaching, guidance, being able to help someone problem solve through what it is that they're going through, being able to help them map the projects, being able to help them make decisions instead of sitting in that place of stagnant energy and not doing anything or not [00:16:00] taking the action. That's incredibly valuable. And so now I see things a lot differently that I've established my own self worth and value in what I bring to the table. And there are still some difficult days in which I don't feel that, but as much as we possibly can showing up with that energy and allowing us to tune into what's going on.
Michelle Pualani: What we want, how we want to serve, and again, that might look different when you're just getting started because you're like, I don't even know what I want to do. I don't know who my ideal client is. And you might take on a lot of work that pushes you past what it is that you really want to be doing. And so then you can learn based off of process of elimination.
Michelle Pualani: But as you start to move through that, kind of trim the fat, so to speak, of what it is that you're offering and how you show up for people, you'll start to get more clear on that and having that sense of purpose and having that sense of worthiness and what it is that you're doing, what it is that you're offering and how you're working with people will help you clarify the identity of the person that you then want to [00:17:00] draw in and the client that you want to work with.
Joanna Newton: that is such good advice because I'm definitely the type of person who learns by doing. I need to get my hands dirty. I need to try it. I need to do it to really have it work and sink in. I can like think theoretically about my packages and my mission and all of that all day long, but until I'm actually doing it, it doesn't connect.
Joanna Newton: And so if you're starting out, you're starting a business, you're working as a service provider and you're finding those clients and you're getting started and you're not sure exactly what you want to offer, what your, what your services are, all of that, that's okay. I highly recommend in the early stages to not sign any long term contracts.
Joanna Newton: do a single project or, you know, work on something for a month while like a year long monthly retainer contract can be very tempting. if you under sell yourself on that really early, then you have a client for an entire year that doesn't fit the mission of what you want to do, you know, isn't in a [00:18:00] pricing range that works for you.
Joanna Newton: So if you want to play and try and just try things out to figure out what your court offerings are, you can go low cost and go short term and like figure it out, Then when you figure it out, you can build up that robust suite of services. And I think that's a really key piece of this.
Joanna Newton: When you're going out to find your best fit clients, this might take time, but you have to understand your core values. What are your services? What is it that you want to be doing? Because sometimes you should get into a sales conversation and be like, I don't actually offer any of the services you need.
Joanna Newton: Here's a recommendation for somebody else or, you know, sorry, this isn't the right fit. And that's okay. Because here's a really good example of this right now, me and my company, we don't offer paid ads. It's not what we're focused on. We don't have someone dedicated to it. Could we do it? Yes. Do we have people on our team that have run successful [00:19:00] ad campaigns?
Joanna Newton: Yes. We don't have a system for it. We don't have like a person dedicated to it. So we're not doing it right now. So when our clients come to us and they say like a repeat client, could you run ads for me? We say no, and that's okay. It can feel like, oh, I want that money, but it would be so much of my time to figure out those contracts since we don't have a system and we're just not ready to expand in that yet.
Joanna Newton: We may someday, but that's not what we're offering today and that's okay. Right? So sitting down and thinking about. Your mission, your values, understanding what it is you actually want to offer and do is so important. And I'll tell you that that helps so much when you're in those sales conversations, because when you can say, This is what I do.
Joanna Newton: And that connects with that client. That's what they need. They see it. If you're going to be early on, when I was telling myself as like a social media consultant, I saw myself as a Jack of all trades. I [00:20:00] help anyone with social media. And I don't think that connected as much that if I was. I help, now if I do social media, I only help course creators who are educating people on something.
Joanna Newton: That's the only kind of social media I support with. That actually gets, even though it's more narrow, it gets me more clients because they see the connection between what I offer and what they do.
Michelle Pualani: That's getting really clear and specific on the niche and who you offer. And I know it's not easy because I still struggle this, with this on a daily basis. And sometimes I'll make the decision, okay, this is who I'm truly focused on. These are the types of people that I'm going to work with. And then I start to like veer off course and my content goes in different directions.
Michelle Pualani: So Always working on this one to be sure, but you can always come back to the drawing board and re hone in on that niche and who you're focused on, which I would suggest you do on a quarterly basis is come back to the drawing board. What is our niche? What are our core offers? How are we delivering that content and messaging to our people?
Michelle Pualani: Are we still in alignment with what we've [00:21:00] set out to do or have we gotten off track? Cause it's really easy on a day to day basis to say, Oh yeah, that's my focus. This is my 90 day goal. Here's my sprint. And then. Each day you get a little bit further away, a little bit further away because there are other tasks or the things calling at you and you're going to get distracted.
Michelle Pualani: So one of the things I want to point out with mindset and intention of finding those best fit clients and attracting those people to you is also separating between your emotional and kind of rational capacity here. So for me, again, when I was bringing clients on, I would internalize it and make it so personal to me. I was not a good person. I wasn't good at what I was doing. Something is wrong with me. Like, I made it all about me and emotionally thought that if I couldn't deliver on a service or I couldn't do something the way that they wanted it to be done, that it became this hit on my ego. shouldn't have been what was taking place. I should have looked at the situation more [00:22:00] rationally and said, okay, this is what I was able to do. I had success in these places and maybe we could improve in these other ways, but we're going to work on that. We're going to work on that together instead of again, internalizing it and making it more of that emotional reaction. of, Oh my gosh, like now I'm fearful or that people pleasing side of me is coming out. And so I didn't do it the exact way that they wanted me to do it. And now that's saying something about who I am as a person and the type of service that I offer and not really. So when you're able to have the perspective of learning as you go, have the perspective of my work is not tied to my worth.
Michelle Pualani: And I think that's such an important point to point out. And so I'm going to say it again is that my work. Does not determine my worth. your worthiness, your sense of self should be completely separate from your work. Should you still have high standards and have a level of quality and excellence that you're bringing to the table? Absolutely have those [00:23:00] standards, meet those goals, deliver impeccable work, but do not tie it to your worthiness because it'll always be dissatisfying. You're always going to feel like, Oh, that wasn't good enough. Or, oh, it should have been done this way. Or, no, it's not done yet. Or, if someone doesn't like something, what does that say about you and your worthiness? So, having the perspective and believing that what you're delivering on is separate from who you are as a person. And knowing that you don't have to have that emotional connection and tie what it is that you're delivering. And again, that'll help you deliver. in this alignment with the clients who are going to be the best to work with for you overall, when you can set those standards and when you can have that discernment.
Joanna Newton: Yeah. And you have to remember in this process that you're building your business, you've started your own business for some sort of reason, likely you want to be your own boss. You want freedom to [00:24:00] live the life that you want to live. You want to work on projects that are exciting to you.
Joanna Newton: And if you're in those sales conversations and your only goal is I want to win this deal, I'm going to say what I need to say, be the person that I should be to close this deal. You might just be actually setting yourself up for misery. if I know my core values, what I offer, how I want to price, who I am, and I show up like that in a sales conversation and that doesn't gel with someone, then they're not right to work with me.
Joanna Newton: And that is 100 percent okay. It doesn't mean I'm not talented. It doesn't mean I'm not capable. It doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't love working with me. It's just not right fit for me. In that case. And I hope that person I talked to finds the right person for them, Finds the person they're going to connect with.
Joanna Newton: That's going to help them with their business. So, again, taking out that connection to your worth just because that's not the right pairing doesn't mean you're not worthy, [00:25:00] doesn't mean you're not capable, doesn't mean, you're not deserving of that contract. It's just not the right fit and that can really help you out of that desperation mindset when you're in sales.
Joanna Newton: if you never get on a sales call where a few minutes in you're like, Oh, this isn't quite right. you don't know enough about yourself because sometimes I get on a call and I'm like, Oh, this is just not, they need a different type of person. And that's like 100 percent okay.
Michelle Pualani: And it really isn't serving you in the long run. So if you have the vision of longevity within your business, which I hope that you do, then getting that short term win and having that money coming in the door, which I will not discredit, that is important. But if you then go to deliver on those services and you don't feel good about it, it's actually going to diminish your sense of self and your ability to sell to other people. It can hurt you in the long run if you commit to that person, don't have the alignment, and then try to fulfill on that service. And it's going to almost be like a [00:26:00] little bit of a spiral. I've had that happen before where I have taken on clients that weren't the best fit. And whether I knew it in advance or not, at the time, it's hard to say, but they weren't the right fit. And what it did was diminish my sense of self further so that then I wasn't pitching myself to more people and getting front of the right clients. So it kind of has this domino effect that if we're not careful, if we're not protecting our energy, if we're not protecting our abilities, if we're not finding the right aligned clients from the beginning, then it can domino into Working with the wrong people and then not wanting to put yourself out there and then diminishing your sales overall.
Michelle Pualani: So being really intentional about some of those red flags that we're going to talk about when you are assessing who are the clients that I want to work with, who do I want to attract, and how am I going to set that up for myself and my business moving forward.
Joanna Newton: something that I do that I think really helps with my mindset in those [00:27:00] situations to not be desperate for the sale is to. Not get desperate for the sale. And I know this sounds really funny, but if you're feeling at capacity with clients, like this is the amount that I have, and this is all that I need.
Joanna Newton: You're going to stop selling yourself, you have to keep selling yourself because say you're working on your own and you have three clients and that's all you can handle, you have your three clients, you lose a client. Then you're in desperation mode and you're just going to grab whatever client you have.
Joanna Newton: You're not going to fill that spot with someone you're really excited about. it might sound crazy, but you should probably be operating above what you think you can do. And this is kind of honestly how we run our business. We definitely take on more clients than we have the capacity for, but it always works out.
Joanna Newton: And I'll tell you why. When you work directly with clients, they are all going to tell you they're in a rush. They are all going to tell you they need it done in three weeks. They are [00:28:00] I'm all going to say everything's ready to go. we're going to get started right away. And it never happens I can say that with full confidence.
Joanna Newton: No one is ever as ready as they think they are. And you sometimes like every once in a while, but I would say it's like 10 percent of the time and 90 percent of the time the projects they're not as ready as they think they are. So you onboard people and then they're like, Oh, wait. I have to do this first and then we'll start.
Joanna Newton: And then I say, no problem. I'll be back in touch with you in a couple of weeks, right? We'll get, we'll just restart in a couple of weeks, but they're already in your queue. So most of the time, if we're above capacity, a client or two will slow themselves down or to work itself out. So don't be afraid to actually overextend yourself a little bit and go above that capacity for yourself.
Joanna Newton: They will slow themselves down to a point where you're going to be able to handle that. Just don't go crazy. [00:29:00] Don't do double or anything, but you can be ahead of schedule. then you keep getting clients and you're able to not be desperate when you're selling.
Michelle Pualani: Which is intentional and having the forethought of the strategy of what it means to be consistently attracting leads and bringing in prospective clients is such an important and integral part of your business. And this is something that I took for granted, especially in the beginning. And as I segued into marketing and business consulting, it was almost easy for me to get clients, but then I would stop, right?
Michelle Pualani: So I would attract and I would have three to four clients Typically that I was working with and that was fine for me and where I was at in my business. And so I would work with those clients most of my clients I work with typically from six months to a year, so I'm not a project based person.
Michelle Pualani: I'm typically more of a coach and consultant in terms of guiding. So we're not usually working on, this is the timeline, this is the start and stop, this is [00:30:00] the exact deliverable that we're going to get out of it. it's larger scale than that. So most of my clients I work with for six months to a year or plus, but.
Michelle Pualani: That being said, usually when we get to kind of a natural transition, or I have had to fire some clients before, not anything bad, but just in terms of you're ready for the next level and I want to And I want to challenge you to find that next level, and I know that it's not with me because of what we've been able to work through together, which is totally okay, comes to kind of a natural closing. But then I haven't done the work to market myself and bring in the client before that happens. So I've kind of What's the word without saying bad things, is uh, like Bit myself in the butt.
Michelle Pualani: Is that a term?
Joanna Newton: It is now.
Joanna Newton: Sure.
Michelle Pualani: So, yeah, so I have basically, so I have set myself up, let's just say I've set myself up for failure in that way. And then I'm at this place where I'm like, oh crap, I had five clients or four to five clients and now I have. Three clients because two just naturally [00:31:00] transitioned at that time. We're going to take a pause on this one because that's what happens, right?
Michelle Pualani: Like businesses evolve, people are in different places. No one's going to stay with you consistently, even if you think that they are. And so you have to have the attraction and the pulling in and the marketing aspect of that to be able to support yourself through those times. So I think it's a really good point to point out.
Joanna Newton: So when it comes to attracting and finding your best fit clients, mindset, so important, knowing your value, so important, having an understanding of your core values, your offerings, like what you actually want is so important. And I know, I think especially as women, we are taught to like be what someone needs us to be or kind of mold ourselves into the role that's expected to us.
Joanna Newton: And this is your time to stop. Doing that and just really understand who you are, what you do. This also can evolve over time so you can make a decision, run your business that way, and then realize, [00:32:00] Oh, I don't want that type of client and then adjust as you go. And that's totally appropriate. Now, once you get that mindset right, you're going to be in lots of conversations, lots of sales conversations, pitching your services, all of that.
Joanna Newton: And from experience, some clients are more work and more worth it than others, right? Not all clients are created equal. And over, you know, my time, I've learned some red flags that when they happen in the sales process. So Michelle was saying before that contract is signed. Kind of tip you off to whether something is going to be a good or bad relationship.
Joanna Newton: And the first red flag I want to bring up is a really tough negotiator. I'm not saying, you know, in a sales conversation, you might negotiate price. That's a thing that happens. I might give discounts or bundle things or update a package to better reflect the client's budget or needs. That is not what I'm talking about.
Joanna Newton: [00:33:00] I'm talking about when someone comes back with a ridiculously low price compared to what you offered and might even want more, that person who comes back and says, this proposal's crazy. I could find someone to do it for half of that. I've never found that if you kind of go back and forth and negotiate with someone with that extreme of perspective, that the relationship goes well.
Joanna Newton: They normally expect a lot from you, are very difficult in the process, are Um, aren't happy with any results and likely at the end of it still don't think that what they paid was worth it for what they did. So when someone is, I, you know, talk to people and they're like, Hey, I've actually done this. Is there a chance I can get a discount?
Joanna Newton: Okay. 10 percent or something like that. No big deal. No big deal. Okay. Or if it's a big discrepancy, I might go back and say, what is your budget? They'll tell me their budget. I'll do an alternate proposal takes away deliverables, right? And says, [00:34:00] okay, I can do this for that price. If they're amenable to that, no problem, right?
Joanna Newton: People have budgets, they have to stick to you. Like things happen, right? But when someone is like a hard nosed, tough negotiator, wants, Everything for a fraction of the price. That's a red flag that that relationship is not going to go well.
Michelle Pualani: which is also surprising because your services are incredibly reasonable. And we've talked about what it is that you offer and the price point at which you offer them for. And if anyone is looking for done with or done for you services within Kajabi, like you guys are an incredible resource who has now a ton of clients under their belt, lots of experience and testimonials to demonstrate that success. I completely agree. I have worked with one specific client that's coming to mind that we did a lot of really great things together, but it was a challenge. And I will say like clients will really take it out of you sometimes. I don't know if you've had this experience before, Joanna, but it really makes you question what it is that you're [00:35:00] doing and how you're showing up.
Michelle Pualani: And these are the types of clients you want to try to avoid or know that you can end the relationship as well. Because they're going to suck the life and energy out of you, and they're going to make you question your very sense of self. And I don't know how they do it, but I think it's just the leadership quality that they have, it's the type of person that they are, it's the type of business that they're running. I'm not sure, but it just shows up in how they take it out on their team, or how they take it on, you know, out on who they've hired and how they're working with people. And so there are clients out there that are red flag clients. And I've had that same experience of wanting to know every single thing in terms of being a part of it.
Michelle Pualani: And after you've already even given a detailed outline, proposal, pages, and things like that, they still have more questions and they're unsure and they're looking for more things. And it's not to say that people shouldn't be discerning of who they hire. [00:36:00] Because I've also made bad hires before of different service providers. But There's something to that demand, and I will actually call myself out here and say that when I have been over exacting and demanding before the contract has been signed, I don't get as good of results because I'm almost micromanaging the situation. I think the important thing is to find the service provider or be the service provider that you know is going to do a really good job, have the same ethics, the moral compass, and Like feel in alignment in that way, energetically having their past experience be a good tip off to what it is that they've been able to successfully fulfill in the past. But when I have tried to over control situations as a client, you know, if I was hiring millennial marketer, for example, if I was trying to overly control the situation and make those Small demands and those tweaks and was really fixated on the details and hyper overactive [00:37:00] with communication. I'm not letting that person do their job.
Michelle Pualani: And at some point we need to be able to let go. And I know that our higher level entrepreneurs, six, seven figure business owners are often releasing that control and they are trusting in the team or the service provider or the agency that they've hired to do their job well. Now, if they're not doing their job well, that's a totally different conversation, But being in that place of like figuring out the fit is there needs to be trust and there needs to be releasing of that detail oriented micromanaging. So if someone does come back with that, and yeah, of course you could totally find it for half. You could probably find it for 6 an hour because we work in the online space and you can totally outsource to the Philippines or any other VA.
Michelle Pualani: Hey. Absolutely. I've hired those people before. Do they deliver the quality of work that I'm looking for or have the strategy mindset of what I've needed support for [00:38:00] in my business? No. Can they support you with other tasks? Yeah, definitely. Is it dependent on the person? Absolutely. Totally, totally and completely across the board, you can get a lot of different things. But if they feel like they can get it for less elsewhere, send them elsewhere because it's not worth it to deal with that type of energy and also lower the value that you're bringing.
Michelle Pualani: that client is going to be more work, more of a drain, more energy sucking and take your bandwidth than it's ever going to be worth in the long run.
Joanna Newton: Yeah. And this is where that mindset kicks in, right? If you know your value, you're not going to do that job for half. You're just not. I'll also add, we didn't, this isn't mindset, but like, if you know your numbers, you also realize you can't do that. It's an individual client takes a certain amount of work, no matter what, right?
Joanna Newton: Because there's [00:39:00] onboarding, there's systems they're involved in. There's, you know. Um, time in your team meetings, there's a certain amount of work that goes into every client, whether it's a big project, a small client project, short term or long term, there just is. So when you're thinking about that, and if you're doing one project for them and you're slashing your prices, there might not be any profit in it.
Joanna Newton: If there's no profit, you can't pay yourself. So why did you do that work? Like you're just spinning around in circles and it's actually not worth it. And you're like, wow, that wasn't worth it. And then if you add, the truth is sometimes I will take a deal that I realized might not be worth it.
Joanna Newton: Profitable for my company, but I know it will like pay for itself under a couple conditions. I think they might be a good long term client. So maybe it makes sense. Or I want to learn how to do that. And I'm using this as a trial case to learn how to do that. And then I can sell it to you.
Joanna Newton: The same thing to somebody else. Like I'm not saying there's not cases where you [00:40:00] don't make a lot of money on a client. What I'm saying is if you know your numbers, you will not let yourself go too low to a point where you're not actually seeing that profit unless there's another benefit it's really tough.
Joanna Newton: You want to say yes, you want, you want the money, but you have to find the people that are going to appreciate the work. I think another big red flag I see. Is if in the sales process, they don't respect your boundaries, they aren't going to respect your boundaries working with them.
Joanna Newton: And remember you're a contractor, you're not a full time employee, right? So you set the rules and the stage for how you engage. So if you want to book a call with them and you want them to click the link in your calendly to book that call, if that's your process and they like refuse to click the link and pick a time, that might not be the right person with you.
Joanna Newton: They can't follow that simple direction and that simple thing. You say, Oh, pick a time with me on my calendar. And they refuse to do it. [00:41:00] That might be a red flag. If you are. You know, working it over email and you want to go over email, but they insist on texting you when you want to communicate an email that might be a red flag.
Joanna Newton: And I'm not saying when you have a client, you might work together on your communication style. That's a very different thing. If someone. If, if someone's doing that, especially if it's like high ticket, like white glove service type of thing, maybe you do text them, right?
Joanna Newton: I'm not saying you don't text them. I'm saying you have the right to set boundaries and set the rules for the communication. And if they just completely don't listen to it at all, that's a red flag.
Michelle Pualani: Yeah, also time frames, right? If they're connecting with you on a weekend or evening in your time zone, and they know that you're not working at those times, or probably shouldn't be working at those times, but they continue to kind of push that boundary, I think paying attention to those boundaries and those, you know, like you said, red flags early on of how they're actually going to [00:42:00] continue to engage with you when you're working together.
Michelle Pualani: Do not think that, oh, this is just for now until we get the contract sign and then everything will change. People don't change. it's like a relationship partner. Like whoever you're dating is going to be who you marry. So make sure that you are okay with however they're acting and the way that they're being. Yes, of course, we're going to evolve. That's a totally different conversation. you've got to ensure that that person is the right fit from the beginning and that you can feel that, you know, and you can assess that.
Michelle Pualani: If anything starts to give you that like, uh, feeling, it's probably, you know, a little bit of a red flag within you to listen to that intuition, to listen to that gut and potentially not move forward or clarify it right from the beginning and let them know. These are my working hours. You know, if we continue to move forward, I would appreciate the respect of being within that timeframe, or I only answer emails within this timeframe, or I only respond to this type of communication within the timeframe and setting that boundary, which also, by the way, comes from self worth, self respect, and the confidence in what you do so that you can deliver on [00:43:00] that. Also, people are way more positively receptive to that. When you assert that authority, they're going to respond more positively, and they're going to see you as a leader and as authority figure so that they want to engage with you more. It's when you start to get wishy washy and unsure, they're either going to take advantage and walk all over you, or they're going to be like, yeah, this person isn't the person that I want to deliver on the work that I'm looking for.
Michelle Pualani: So being really mindful of that.
Joanna Newton: this still goes back to your mindset, right? What we talked about in the first portion of this episode. Like if you know your core values, you know who you are, you know what you want, you can set those expectations and you're your own business owner. They do not have to follow a normal company's mindset.
Joanna Newton: If you like taking weekend calls because you like to. Then take the weekend calls, right? Like that's your call. If you like evening calls or like you set the schedule, the boundaries, the things that you want, and [00:44:00] again, if it's not a fit for that person, they should find someone that is right. If they only want to work with someone who's going to text them, then they should find someone who will text them.
Joanna Newton: For me, getting an action item in a text does not work for me. I will forget it. I will lose it. And I know that about myself. A quick question, fine. But if it's like, Hey, do this thing for me, like it's going to get lost. It's not how I work best. So normally I respond with like, Hey, can you send that to me in an email?
Joanna Newton: Because then I know what will get done and setting that, setting that expectation. and so that's what it's all about. If you have the mindset, you know who you are, you know, your mission. You can set those boundaries and you can be okay You're not going to close that sale because you don't want to do a 10 PM meeting on a Wednesday night.
Joanna Newton: they weren't the right client for you anyway. think another red flag in my mind is maybe a little less, um, obvious than the other two that we shared is not being like a mission fit with you. I think, again, think about why you left your [00:45:00] nine to five. Think about why you work for yourself. You likely have passions and things you're excited about. If you're excited about what that client is doing, you're going to want to do that project.
Joanna Newton: You're not going to drag your feet. You're going to want to go on calls with them. You're going to want to get the work done. You're going to exceed their expectations. They're going to be happy. You're going to be happy. All of that's happening. Now, if you end up working with the clients that aren't a good, like.
Joanna Newton: Mission fit aligned with what you're doing. It's not going to work out now for some kinds of services that will, like as an example, I could build, have my team build a single sales page for a type of client's business that I'm not super excited about. That's totally fine. But if you're doing that ongoing coaching strategy day in day out stuff with someone, you need to be aligned from like a mission perspective.
Joanna Newton: You need to believe in what they're [00:46:00] doing. You need to believe in them and you need to have that type of relationship. Can you do one off projects? Totally. Right? If they're quick things that are, that are easy and all of that. But if you're going to be meeting with these people for months, for a year, for six months, you want to make sure you like really align together.
Michelle Pualani: from coaching, I think this is really important and it's more, not necessarily in alignment with what they offer, what they do, but if you actually like them as a person and how they're showing up. Super important. I have brought on clients that are complainers, whiners, just kind of, you Defeatist, status quo mentality. I do not work, nor do I serve those type of clients well. Not that they're bad people. We love them. They're great people. They just have to take that somewhere else because it's not the type of energy that I respond well to. And I'm not going to be the best coach for them because I'm not that nurturing and loving and supportive in that way. I'm a little bit more [00:47:00] cutthroat and I'm a little bit more, you know, intentional about the way that I work with people when it comes to challenging them And reflecting what it is that they're going through to them so that they can see themselves a little bit more clearly, which means sometimes being more honest. being more in your face. Hey, I know that you're talking about this thing that you're trying to do. Did you realize that this is all the ways in which you're self sabotaging? Oh, I didn't realize that. Okay, great. Now, how can we move past that? So with my clients and what I like to do, I like to get in. I like to do the work.
Michelle Pualani: I like to face the things. I want to do it with Good energy. And that doesn't mean all, I mean, all of my clients cry with me. I've never not had a client who hasn't cried on a call with me. And that's okay. That's a totally different situation, right? Emotions are coming up through a lot of the stuff that we do. But, When the client is bringing things to you or living life in a way that you don't necessarily align with, it's probably not going to be a good fit. And [00:48:00] the way that they're showing up to the calls is going to impact you. It's going to impact your ability to coach. I think that what's coming to mind for me with this is the more that we can authentically show up as ourselves and be vulnerable about who we are in our marketing, in our messaging, in the positioning of our offers.
Michelle Pualani: The sales of our services, the better we're going to find and magnetize the clients who are aligned
Michelle Pualani: to us and are the best fit. Because it's not always going to happen in words or it's not always going to happen on paper and it's not always going to happen with sales pages or emails or anything else.
Michelle Pualani: Again, we've had this conversation of energy. We'll have to do the official podcast on our energetics because Joanne and I are both working on our energetics and our magnetism and what that looks like is we're attracting people to us and it's, It's true that those best fit clients are going to be very aligned if you are authentically standing in your own power.
Michelle Pualani: If you have that personal power and you're voicing that power, [00:49:00] you're showing up with integrity of who you are and authenticity of your own personality and your own uniqueness. And I feel like that is going to be the best way to really discern whether a client is a good fit or not is you're standing in that place
Michelle Pualani: of ownership. This is who I am. This is what I offer. This is how I deliver. And if that's not aligned with where you are and what you need, that's okay. And being okay with that, moving on or yes, it's a hell yes for me. Let's do it. Let's get in. Let's do the work.
Joanna Newton: something you got me thinking about, Michelle, while you were talking is like, Old school, salesperson advice, if you are taking a sales 101 course to be a software salesperson at a, at a corporate company, they're going to tell you to research your person, understand who they are, reflect, you know, reflect back.
Joanna Newton: that person back to them. If they like the Yankees, you like the Yankees, right? Like that's kind of very like old school advice. And [00:50:00] there's a lot of advice out there in the world when it comes to sales or running a business or finances or anything that are made for like normal people. Like, and I don't, I don't mean to be rude, but right, like people who are content living an average, normal life.
Joanna Newton: And I'll tell you, there's nothing wrong with wanting a nine to five, with clocking in and clocking out of your job for just Having, a normal life, you retire, you have a little money, maybe you go to Florida, right? There's nothing wrong with wanting that life. But I don't think if you're listening to this podcast or you're me or you, Michelle, that you want a normal life.
Joanna Newton: that's not what I'm going for. So I can't listen to the advice of, Of someone who wants a normal life. So right. That old school advice of reflect that person back to them. Be that. No, I want people who want me the expert, who I am, what I come with, my personality, [00:51:00] my directness. If they're going to work with me, they're going to want me.
Joanna Newton: Right? And so starting to think differently and being like, what is it I want? What is the company I want to build? What is the culture I want to have? Who do I want to work with? And I want them to want to work with me. whatever that is. So I'm not going to put on a mask and be who they want me to be to close the deal.
Joanna Newton: I'm going to be me. If it's a good fit, we will move on and it'll be fantastic. Those people will love you so much more. I love this. So I'm a big musical theater geek, and there's this musical called title of show. So super obscure musical, and it's a musical about people writing a musical about writing a musical.
Joanna Newton: Like that's, What it's about, and it talks a lot about creatives and the creative process and all of that. And there's this moment in the musical where they sing this whole song about wanting to be, nine people's favorite thing instead of a hundred people's ninth favorite thing. [00:52:00] So it's like, I want nine people to think I'm the best.
Joanna Newton: More than I want a hundred people to think like I'm cool, And when you can get that right, I think that's when, you know, nine people really, really loving you will turn into more at the end of the day. And a hundred people kind of loving you will likely not turn into more, right?
Michelle Pualani: So as we start to wrap up this conversation, starting to pull out those takeaways and those things that you can more tangibly practice and how to get the best fit clients, I think that starts with the self reflection. And that starts with tuning into. Why are you here? What are you showing up to do? Who do you want to work with?
Michelle Pualani: How do you serve them? All of those questions that as a business owner, you should be reflecting on at the very beginning and then consistently throughout your tenure and your business and your career overall. And then also, So looking at what's happening with those people that you start to engage with, you've got to start to pay attention, pay attention to the body language, pay attention [00:53:00] to the way that they're communicating, pay attention to some of the things that we're talking about and start to learn whether that's looking back at DMs or emails or communication that you've had in the past or say you've had a bad client and you were like, man, what went wrong with that. Look back. See if there are any red flags that stand out to you now that you know, or if you had a really great client, what was the energy that they came in with? What was the language that they were using? How can you replicate that and recreate it in your content, in your messaging, in your offers, so that you start to attract more of those people and hopefully turn off.
Michelle Pualani: A really great way to do this, and I'll close on this thought, a really great way to do this is similar to how Joanna and I have done this throughout this podcast. Speaking of matter. is that we are saying this is how we work. This is the type of person that isn't a good fit for us. This is the type of person who is. I work with high achievers, people who are going to focus on high performance habits in their life and in their [00:54:00] business so that they excel, so that they move forward. They've already gotten traction. They've already done well in their business, and they want to take it to the next level. They're looking at the their six or seven figure level, and how can I project manage this?
Michelle Pualani: How can I double down on an offer and improve it? How can I focus and clarify what it is that I do? And I don't work with those people who are just unsure of where they are. They're just maybe getting started. They're not generating any income so far. I don't work with people who don't really want to get in and do the work.
Michelle Pualani: Don't take the action. Noticing that how we've just seeded that in terms of the types of clients that we want to work with, our ideal clients, where they're at, how they're functioning in their business, and then, you know, Hopefully started to turn away people if they identify as like, Oh, well, I'm not really ready to take action.
Michelle Pualani: I kind of just am in this place. I'm not really sure. Um, maybe not really our type of client. So noticing that and then [00:55:00] starting to employ that in how you show up in your content and what you're putting out into the world. How can you verbally set that intention and make that very clear for your audience?
Joanna Newton: That's such an important note, is starting to put out in the world what it is that you actually want, Which can be so hard. It can feel like you're limiting yourself. It can feel like you're turning people away. But at the end of the day, you should be building the business you want, made up the clients you want, and the people that you want to work with.
Joanna Newton: And I'm sure we could go off and list off probably 25 more red flags, right? But I think at the end of the day, mindset shift you need to have is that what is it that you want and how do you identify whether those people are going to be a good fit and just keep going. Getting to the point where you're okay to walk away.
Joanna Newton: You're okay when someone says, I could do it, but for this price to say, I don't offer it at that price. [00:56:00] This is the price. And if they say no, they say no. And you find someone else and getting to that point is going to give you the confidence to grow your business, find clients, do what you need to do to live the life that you want.
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