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Michelle Pualani: There's a big trend on social media happening right now. I consider them like honesty dumps, basically where you'll see a carousel post of photos that have some text on the [00:01:00] photo about things that we are struggling with right now. I'm seeing coaches. Business professionals, solopreneurs, anyone in the online space who has some sort of content platform, not everyone, obviously, but there are quite a few accounts that I follow who are posting these truth dumps, these opportunities to break down the barrier behind or between their audience, their community, and what it is that they're actually going through right now.
Michelle Pualani: We know that social media can be this space of lies, for lack of a better word, truths, maybe is a better way to say it, is that we aren't necessarily outright lying about our circumstances, but we're shedding the best light upon them that we usually can, which makes sense because when we're in a crappy, terrible mood, we're not typically going to want to post on social media.
Michelle Pualani: Usually we're sharing only a segment of our lives, and that typically. Is the segment of our lives that we want to put out into the world that we want to position ourselves for. And if you're someone who's [00:02:00] creating a personal brand, has a platform, is creating content in order to run, scale, grow a business, then usually you're going to talk about the good things because you want people to invest in those good things.
Michelle Pualani: But it's a really beautiful thing that we're seeing when people are kind of Pulling back the curtain and sharing some of the struggles that they're going through. So we're going to chat a lot about that today. We're going to talk about some of the examples of these struggles, personal and professional.
Michelle Pualani: We're going to talk about how Joanna and I are navigating some of these things as well, and how you can also one leverage this opportunity to pull back the curtain for you. and your business, you and your audience. So you can connect a little bit deeper. And also, if you are struggling with some of these things, we're going to chat a little bit about how we can navigate them as an individual, as a human being in the world with all of these other identities surrounding us, whether you are a mother, a daughter, a spouse, a sister, [00:03:00] how you show up in your business, whether you are a business owner, whether you are a solopreneur, whether you are a coach, we have all of these identities that kind of run our internal state of being.
Michelle Pualani: And sometimes when those External circumstances don't meet our expectations, or we feel like we're not meeting the goals that we set for ourselves, or we feel like we're maybe even letting other people down. comes back as reflection of our worthiness. And so we're going to chat a little bit about how to undermine that, how to actually give yourself the opportunity to, independent of the accolades, independent of the success, independent of the failures, sustain your own sense of worthiness throughout that experience.
Michelle Pualani: So I'm super excited to dive into this conversation today. let's go ahead and just start with a basic definition of what we consider to be that idea or concept of worthy. Okay. Joanna, you want to kick us off with that?
Joanna Newton: I am not prepared to kick us off with that.
Joanna Newton: Oh no, She's going to ask me and I don't have a good answer in [00:04:00] this moment, but that is okay. I'm still worthy to be here and on this podcast.
Michelle Pualani: You are absolutely 100 percent worthy we'll reel it back a little bit.
Michelle Pualani: So here's my definition and concept of worthy. And I'm sure this will spark some ideas for you, Joanna. when I think of being worthy, I think of that feeling of enoughness.
Michelle Pualani: I think of that satisfaction, that contentment, As is, and that means without any additional learning, growing, evolution, transformation, opportunities, sales, growth in terms of follower count, speaking opportunities, books published, take all of the things away. That are measured in success here in America, in the U.
Michelle Pualani: S., in our capitalist society, when it comes to it comes to title, when it comes to financial wealth, when it comes to the physical stuff that you surround yourself with, whether that be your home or your car, the nice things that you have throughout the [00:05:00] day.
Michelle Pualani: Independent of any relationship network or anything that you've tried to establish for yourself. Worthiness is an underlying sense of contentment, fulfillment, satisfaction, and feeling of enough independent of anything else. So that is my definition of worthy and how I'm going to be thinking of it and operating from while we navigate this conversation.
Joanna Newton: as a human being, as a person, you are worthy. And I think that gets so misconstrued all of the time, Because we're all looking at worthiness as human beings in different like psychosocial lenses. Like we have our worldview, we have how we grew up. You know, how our parents treated us, what they valued, what they wanted for us through schooling.
Joanna Newton: What was your neighborhood, your, area like in work, right? What does your company value in [00:06:00] you? And I think it's so easy to start to confuse the difference between like traits people around you want you to have and your value. And that's where this starts to get. I think super messy, right?
Joanna Newton: Because as human beings, we have some innate worthiness of our, our existence. Like we can create, we exist, we love, we do all of these amazing things without thinking of it in like the capitalistic way or in any sort of production way. But I think it's very quick to start to measure our worth. In things like what we produce, how much money we make, even altruistic things.
Joanna Newton: What sort of impact do we have on society? How are we helping others? It's not just all gets messed up with money, but there's also just these certain values that we start to think. I will only be worthy of love when. I do X, or I will only be worthy [00:07:00] of attention if I do Y, right? And I think there's all of these messages about worthiness that come at us from everywhere. Every angle and make this such a difficult topic. when you say, this is my definition of worthiness, that like I have value, that's like hard to hear. It's like, really? Like I just have value. I'm enough, no matter what, with nothing else going on.
Michelle Pualani: It's really tough for us, and I'm seeing that in so many places, and this is not a place that I feel like, for myself, I have gotten to. And have always had, I think that I have had such a battle with worthiness and this feeling of enough throughout my personal development journey. And over the last, especially 10 years of my life, As I've gone through the therapy and the hypnosis and the meditation and the reflections and everything that has come along my personal journey is that before this time, I have had a sense of [00:08:00] needing to meet expectations, fulfill goals, accomplish to a certain level and degree to have value, even when it comes to relationships, when it comes to Either if you identify as a people pleaser, or even just in your more subtle relationships of how you're trying to support the other person or make sure that they're okay before you're okay, that's another place in which you are trying to provide some sort of value that is external to, again, your basic sense of self.
Michelle Pualani: You are saying that by being here, I'm enough. When you have that sense of worthiness and value, when you try to fulfill some other need, want, desire outside of that, that is often, I feel like where the breakdown of value and worthiness happened because now you're, um, Needing some sort of validation, you are trying to have it be contingent upon whether you satisfy [00:09:00] somebody else or not, or whether you satisfy a goal, or whether you satisfy anything outside of how you show up in the world and who you are.
Michelle Pualani: Now, I think this conversation is important because I also really do believe in personal development and growth. I believe in wanting to be and get better in your personal life, in your professional life, and how you show up learning through books, podcasts, education, going to school and acquiring all of these skills.
Michelle Pualani: But we cannot conflate those skills with our sense of worthiness and our value. So we have to be able to distinguish between the two, which is the other reason why I don't necessarily always like when people conflate their businesses or what they've created or produced in the world with themselves and their identity, because you have to question if that thing goes away, if it fails, if it crashes and burns, if it goes bankrupt, whatever that looks like, if your identity is tied into [00:10:00] that, then that's going to take a huge hit and that's going to give you a sense of Lacking that worthiness, not feeling like enough, not feeling satisfied with who you are feeling like, well, then what do I have to offer the world?
Michelle Pualani: Who am I? And what am I even doing here? What's my Dharma? What's my purpose? And whereas obviously those things are important parts of people's stories and that's part of their evolution and their journey. Part of that is the realization that they are enough on their own outside of those things. So I think with what these posts are really explaining.
Michelle Pualani: Are struggles. Like I haven't made as many sales as I would have liked. I created new programs and they didn't sell the way that I intended them to. I am a mother and I want to actually spend more time with my kids than I do on my business right now. I'm not feeling too motivated to post on social media.
Michelle Pualani: I struggle with gut health, even though I'm a nutrition professional, I'm not working out as much as I feel like I'm coaching other [00:11:00] people too, because I'm a fitness professional. So there's all of these discrepancies. It feels like in the way that someone feels like they should be acting in their role and as their identity and what's actually happening on a real world Day to day kind of basis. with those of us who are having
Michelle Pualani: those feelings as content creators, as business owners, I'm so grateful that we're having this discussion and I'm grateful that they're able to present those things to the world,
Michelle Pualani: but as I see these posts, what I'm acknowledging and recognizing is, yes, it's great to be vulnerable. Yes. It's great to pull back the curtain. Yes. It's great to share these things. and again, I'm glad that the conversation is coming up, but what it makes me feel is Empathy or sympathy to some degree for the person that's posting them that they feel like that.
Michelle Pualani: They're not worthy Not enough that they feel like an imposter in their situation That they feel like They should be meeting all of these expectations and these goals and now they [00:12:00] have to be honest about the fact that they aren't Whether it's because we've created a landscape in which the honesty hasn't been available yet, or whether it's because social media has become what it has just organically so that now we need to make some sort of like big shift and change in how we're presenting information to our audience, to our community, to our network.
Michelle Pualani: I'm not sure, but I think it asks a bigger question of why we're feeling these things in the first place.
Joanna Newton: The first thing that I really hit home for me is talking about this idea of this sense of identity, When our identity is in our career or in our appearance or in how much money we make or the things that we have. If something were to like crumble about that identity and feel. You know, like a failure in any sort of way that just is going to mess with your internal sense of self, right? And your internal sense of worthiness. [00:13:00] And it got me thinking about this one time I had this like horrible experience with a client.
Joanna Newton: It was one of my first freelance clients and I was doing social media for her We were doing fantastic, on paper, fantastic work together. Her social media grew by like a thousand followers and like two weeks, we were putting out great content, you know, figuring out her messaging and all of those things. you know, one of the things, if you do have people in your social media accounts, a little note, Anyone in your account can see your DMS. So if you're DMing things to people, be aware that if you have someone managing your account, they can actually see those DMS and we'll get notifications. And I got a notification of her talking to someone saying that I sucked. She referred to me as her social media growth girl, which is funny cause that's not actually what our contract was for. It was for like content management and strategy. I wasn't actually [00:14:00] doing or required to do growth work on the account. She thought that I sucked and told this person and I saw it, which was like kind of heartbreaking.
Joanna Newton: You know, she's one of my first social media clients One thing that made me really proud of myself in that moment, and this was, you know, when I'm first starting to become a business owner and entrepreneur is actually realize she can think I suck and I can think I don't suck. and those are two different things.
Joanna Newton: And I can take that feedback and think, okay, what could I learn from it? Whatever, but it doesn't have to actually affect my value because my value isn't in this person's. Opinion of me, you know, on paper, like objectively I was doing a good job. So that's like a whole nother topic, right? Because actually I was able to see we got a thousand followers in two weeks.
Joanna Newton: Her views are up, her comments are up, her engagement is up, right? She's having like true real followers. [00:15:00] There are good things happening. Wasn't happening as fast as she wanted it to. So she decided that meant. I sucked. Could someone else have gotten her more followers faster? Maybe, right? Was I the right partner for her?
Joanna Newton: Probably not because it wasn't, you know, working, but in her, in her eyes, but I didn't have to take that internally and think I could have said, well, I suck at social media. I'm not going to do this anymore. I'm going to give up. Or I could say, how do I move on from this? to this day, I don't know if she actually saw, I saw the message, but I made a decision to the next day, reach out to her and let her know that, you know, it didn't seem like this was a good fit and that it was working and asked how she'd like to transition me out.
Joanna Newton: I just decided to opt out. She agreed. We kind of shared the documents we needed and moved on. but I just decided that. I did not want to be working for someone who thought I sucked. I was like, this isn't a good thing for me, for my self esteem, for what I'm [00:16:00] doing. If she's not happy, let's just part ways.
Michelle Pualani: When you reflect on a story like that, it seems so obvious from a third party perspective, You see that, you're like, oh, well, you don't have to identify with the fact that she didn't think you were doing a good job. You had the choice to move on. It seems so cut and dry. But what happens is on a consistent and daily basis, we wrap ourselves into these things subconsciously without knowing it.
Michelle Pualani: It is receiving like a troll comment or someone who said something. I actually remember I got this comment on a YouTube post once it was a short and I was talking about how you're investing your time and investing that time wisely and thinking about where you're delegating or deleting, you're paying attention to that.
Michelle Pualani: And I think the comment was this guy who was like, yeah, I wish I got my 16 seconds back or from watching the video. And I was like, okay, well, That's fine. That's your choice and how you can move forward successfully from this. I'm glad that you learned so much in the video, but realistically, what that does is it creates these [00:17:00] fears within us and sometimes subconscious belief systems in which maybe you're not posting as much as you would normally.
Michelle Pualani: Maybe you're not sending the email. Maybe you're not putting the offer out there. Maybe you're not asking for the sale because you are afraid of the criticism that you're potentially going to receive, afraid of the judgment that could happen by getting out on social media and actually creating this platform.
Michelle Pualani: Or you've had something negative happen in the past. And so it's tainted your ability to take action. And it's again, something that we don't always realize. If I had seen that comment and just said like, Oh, well, I guess my social media content isn't very good. I guess I'm again, going to stop or go a different direction.
Michelle Pualani: But if anything, sometimes that feedback is helpful to say, okay, how can we improve this? But also people are just going to be crummy sometimes. Like they're going to be people who have criticisms and opinions and judgments about you that truly don't matter. matter. And this is still something I'm learning, but the [00:18:00] sooner you can let that go and release that fear of how they see you and what they say about you, the better off you're going to be in business and life.
Michelle Pualani: we have to remember again, that if we sustain our own sense of worthiness, and if we sustain our own sense of value, then we can see a comment like that. Delete it and move on. And that's it. Cause that's all it should be. It shouldn't be like, Oh, well, is my content not good? Did I say something wrong?
Michelle Pualani: What's like what? And then you can start to stumble and question and you go in this vicious cycle and this negative thought pattern of your performance. Again, it's okay to receive feedback from people that you trust and improve, tweak, change based on that, but not be so wrapped up in people that you don't know and their perspective or their comments or their criticism of how you're operating, because it's not going to really serve you In the long run. So the other thing that comes to mind is being invested in the process and the journey and not the [00:19:00] outcome. one of the things that I again have been working on practicing and one of my mentors talks about is whether he does successfully with sales or social media growth, or email list count or whatever, anything that you want to measure when it comes to metrics, is that it's not good or bad and he's not better or worse because of it.
Michelle Pualani: So the thing is that we often get ourselves wrapped up in the negative side of things, right? Like if you have a failed launch, if you post something and it only gets 200 views, the negative side of it. You have to think like, okay, well, I'm not going to internalize that and make it a negative thing about me, but it's actually the same for the positives.
Michelle Pualani: So if you have a 100, 000 launch or make a million dollars this year, or your post gets 20, 000 views, it also shouldn't reflect positively on your value or your worth. Because again, if you get tied up in the positives, you're just as [00:20:00] easily susceptible to getting wrapped up and tied into the negatives.
Michelle Pualani: So what you want to start to do is look at what you're doing as more neutral and not be so outcome based. So for example, if you are interested in growing a thousand followers or 10, 000 followers or reaching a hundred thousand followers. You're going to invest in the process and the journey of what that could look like.
Michelle Pualani: Does that mean that you have a system in place to post three to five times a week? Does that mean that you have a review system in place after three weeks of posting? You look back, you see what performs the best, and then you repeat some of that content. It's okay to systematize and look at a process.
Michelle Pualani: That can help you make these decisions in order to improve the process, the journey, and the experience that will get you to an outcome, but not be invested in the outcome. And just say, I am only a good content creator if I, if I reach a thousand followers or 10, 000 followers, or, you know, really asking yourself, like, what [00:21:00] does that say about me?
Michelle Pualani: And the last thing I want to say about this is really that this happens at every single level. I'm at a mastermind with multi seven figure business owners and they still conflate their value with their business.
Michelle Pualani: They're membership, their offer, the students that they've served, the follower count growth that they've acquired by now, the business ultimately that they've created. if you have to imagine if all of that were to just go away, what then, what are you letting your business, your success or lack of success say about you?
Michelle Pualani: And how can you start to detach from those things?
Joanna Newton: looking at the process versus yourself, that's something that's so much easier to do as an outside observer. if, Michelle, I was sharing with you, which I do all the time, a situation where, you know, I feel like I messed up and it, turned out poorly and, for me, it's reflecting on my [00:22:00] worth, you know, my abilities, all of those things, objectively, it's going to be easier for you to look at, like, this is what went well.
Joanna Newton: This is what went wrong. What wrong? Like this is the process you followed. This is how we could improve the process and just look at it much more objectively.
Joanna Newton: But it's really easy when you're looking on the outside to be able to see what went well, what didn't go well and how it worked in the process when it's not for yourself. I work directly with clients. I, you know, talk to friends, other businesses, owners, all of that. all of the time. And when they're telling me about a failure, I do not think it affects their worthiness. there's not a thought in my head. That's like, they're unworthy of good things. They deserve this bad thing. They caused this bad thing. My, head still thinks they're wonderful and still thinks they're worthy and still thinks they're talented and all of those things. And if they're asking me [00:23:00] for my advice, I'm thinking, how can they improve it for next time?
Joanna Newton: Like what could they do differently to get the result that they want? And I do not connect it with their worthiness or ability or any of those things. It's so easy to do that for other people, but so hard to do it for ourselves. and then you were also talking about like the negative comments, right? can also be, I think easier, at least for me, like I've been in social media. I actually kind of like the mean comments because I just know it helps my engagement. And sometimes I like egg them on, like, I'll just like respond and ask questions and get them to talk more. Cause it doesn't bother me at all, especially when they're Outlandish, but getting negative comments from your family, from your friends, those things are really hard.
Joanna Newton: And if you are doing things that are a little outside the norm, you likely will get negative comments, right? Like I was in a situation when I first started starting [00:24:00] bit like a business. I had someone close to me laugh at the idea that my business could make more than a hundred thousand dollars in a year. they kind of laughed at it. Right. And, I could internalize that comment and think that that's true, that how could I possibly own a business that makes more than a hundred thousand dollars in a year, I could hang on to that angrily, you know what I mean? And let that affect me internally, or I can just let that go because a lot of times that negative feedback of your worthiness says so much more about their own view. Of their worthiness than your worthiness. And in those heated moments, it's really easy to forget that, but at the end of the day, their comments are just more of a reflection of them than of you. And I think thinking through that and understanding like. this doesn't need to affect me.
Joanna Newton: This doesn't need to affect my sense of self, my sense of worthiness, and you just kind of move on right with, with your life. It's not in real life, but on [00:25:00] Instagram, you can hit delete and move on. I think in your head, you can try to hit delete and move on.
Michelle Pualani: Yeah, and absolutely all easier said than done, right? You want to critically and rationally think that these things don't affect you, but they can emotionally and psychologically. And I think it's always an opportunity for us to then self reflect and become more self aware. Oh, I'm noticing that this is bothering me.
Michelle Pualani: Why is that? You know, how can I think about this differently to change this feeling, this emotion, this response?
Michelle Pualani: What sort of investment do I want to have in this particular thing in order for it to be positive in my life? starting to think a little bit more critically about how this is showing up for you, in your personal brand, in your business and how you create content and how you show up in the world and personally, of course.
Michelle Pualani: not only is this business and professionally related, but it also, again, shows up in our personal relationships, in [00:26:00] our family, in our friendships, in our intimate partnerships. And what does that look like for us and how are we letting it dictate our. state of being because that's what it does.
Michelle Pualani: It affects our state of being and it will inhibit your actions. So as you're thinking about these things, again, what are those things that you're possibly procrastinating on? What are those things that you're avoiding in your business? What are the needle moving activities that you know that you should be doing, whether that's in your health or in your business?
Michelle Pualani: And you're actually not doing them. Could it be that there is some sense of worthiness when I was deep into health coaching and how I still work with clients is helping them understand their own sense of value, that they feel worthy of taking that action. I know it sounds silly, but if you're trying to execute and start a fitness routine, if you genuinely don't believe that you're worthy of the health, the wellness.
Michelle Pualani: the body, the sense of self, or [00:27:00] even just the time that it takes to invest in something like that, you're going to sabotage it. So you're going to avoid procrastinate, not do not make time for not schedule out, or always come up with excuses. You'll prioritize the meetings. You'll prioritize this client work.
Michelle Pualani: You'll prioritize these other things because there's a lack of worthiness and how you're showing up in the world. all important things to remember as you navigate this, because again, with what we're seeing in these social posts is individuals reflecting back some of their biggest insecurities or sharing, again, some of those honest truths about how they're feeling about their own worthiness.
Michelle Pualani: And I'm thinking that by sharing them, it helps bring them to light. I think that's the, And I think that's the biggest and positive thing about this is that a lot of times when we internalize and we deal with them on our own, or we just run them through our head, We don't address them.
Michelle Pualani: We don't change them. We don't transform them. It really just becomes this internal [00:28:00] narrative that cycles and cycles and cycles and cycles. So again, I think it's a positive thing. I think it's interesting. I think it brings up this question of how. If you're a business owner, if you're a personal brand, how you can leverage this in your own business as well.
Joanna Newton: I think one of the things like currently in my struggle world is the idea of a rest because for me, a lot of times I feel like I can rest when everything is done, but there's this reality that like, you know, I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I have a home, I have a business, I have employees, I have clients. Actually getting everything done. It's not possible, like, really, like, honestly, to, to feel fully, fully done, like everything's checked off the list. you know, that's hard. So if you, if you kind of insert, like, I am worthy of rest when everything is [00:29:00] done, then rest is never going to happen. Right? And at the same time, I have a hard time getting to a state of rest if I don't feel like I accomplished enough within a given day. on top of that, we've talked about in this podcast that I have like a chronic illness sometimes takes me out of being able to do as much as I want. In a day. So sometimes I'll have these days where it's like, I didn't do enough and like, I will feel bad. this, I did not accomplish it enough. Now, if I wrote down on a piece of paper, everything that I did in a day. most people would be impressed. Most people would be like, wow, that was a lot, but somehow in my head, what is actually possible of accomplishing in a day and what's reasonable to accomplish in a day and what I think is reasonable to accomplish a day is not the same thing so that I'm constantly disappointing myself, but I have these [00:30:00] very unrealistic expectations. About what is even possible, right? So you could see how I could get in this cycle of never feeling worthy of rest, never properly resting, because I'm not living up to the standard that the only one who has set that standard for themselves is me. I know for a fact, no one else is looking at me thinking like, Joanna, you are lazy today.
Joanna Newton: Like that is not happening. And honestly, if I was probably be a good thing, I don't know. Sometimes you need that. So, you know, I think if you're thinking about the thing that makes you feel bad about yourself, I bet you there is a chance that. Whatever that thing is, you have an unrealistic expectation set for yourself of what's possible. Thinking about if you want to start an exercise routine, right? Maybe for you going from no workouts ever to daily 6 a. m. workouts, maybe that's an. [00:31:00] Unrealistic thing for you and your lifestyle. And if you actually set yourself a realistic goal, you could accomplish that and feel really good, not add strata, you know what I mean?
Joanna Newton: All of those things. But I think it's really hard for us to set realistic goals for ourselves.
Michelle Pualani: rest is a struggle for a lot of folks. You know, it's funny because I feel like at this point in my life, it's the opposite for me where like financial and business focus is the struggle for me, even though I love what I do and I love my work. I take a lot of rest and.
Michelle Pualani: Give myself a lot of space. I think that's coming from a place of burnout and realizing some of these worthiness and value pieces and recognizing that rest is just as important, if not more important than the work aspect. But I do feel myself getting caught up in that like hustle and grind mentality of, okay, I got it.
Michelle Pualani: I just got to work. I just got to focus on work. And as business owners work for us is, and can be 24 seven because it's all up in our thoughts all the [00:32:00] time. So if we don't actively take the rest and take time away, one, it'll actually lead to less creativity, less focus, less, you know, decision making, a lot of things that we talk about on this podcast That's important for your ability to succeed and your overall sense of well being in order to balance those two things, so financial and professional. really go hand in hand in that realm. So for me, it's more about like, okay, how can I actually leverage and focus more on my business and financial success now that I feel like I've ironed out the self care, the rest, the exercise and everything in between.
Michelle Pualani: okay. So the other thing that you mentioned is Is the really this idea of contingencies, you know, the things that we're talking about in terms of meeting other people's expectations or meeting your own expectations, I will rest when I will be happy when I will feel this sense of success when I accomplish it's it's all contingencies and we [00:33:00] have to let go of that we have to release it.
Michelle Pualani: that we have to be okay, independent of the, if then, then that type of situation. feeling like we'll only be satisfied or we only have value, or I'm only going to be happy when I have accomplished. X, or I have fulfilled Y is no way to live. And we're always going to be chasing. And we're always going to be looking to that next goal, that next thing in order to fulfill us in order to satisfy us.
Michelle Pualani: And I think we need to do the opposite. I think that we need to figure out our contentment, our satisfaction, our happiness. Now, I genuinely think that that's been part of my Dharma and my personal development journey is understanding these, Without all of the external success or those different narratives or contingencies or accomplishments or accolades and figuring that out about myself, being okay with that, and then moving forward from there so that I know that anything that I accomplished along the way, it still doesn't [00:34:00] affect change or dictate my value or my sense of worth,
Joanna Newton: this concept of, to do things to get some sort of reward, it's so tough because it's so ingrained in, like, our society. And you even think about, like, you know, I'm a parent, so this analogy, it makes me think of it. Right away. But like in school and with parenting, you'll do things.
Joanna Newton: This is actually something we try not to do, but sometimes it's hard where you like, earn rewards for doing actions, right? So, like, you have your chores and if you do them, you get stickers and if you get enough stickers, we'll go out for ice cream, right? This is something you do to try to get your children to behave a certain way. very common practice that most people would not think is problematic in any way. You do this, you get this, right? And we get taught from, as children in [00:35:00] school, in society, that you do this, you deserve a treat. You've completed this. You even do that to ourselves. Like, Oh, I'm going to go do this thing.
Joanna Newton: And if I, if I do really well, I'll go get myself a coffee, right? I'll treat myself with a coffee, even, recently bought myself some new clothes for my birthday and thought I've worked really hard this year, I deserve these clothes. And like, no, I'm actually just a human and I have a body and I should have clothes. those are just things like I don't have to earn. I mean, I guess technically I have to earn clothing because I have to make money to be able to buy clothing. But like this is a need, you know, like you need things. And so I think that we just get so many messages as children in marketing, in society that, I have to do something to deserve something else, you know, and that's so hard. And this is something I, you know, we, I [00:36:00] said I struggle with the rest thing. Like I don't remember. I don't know. It was like a Saturday and I didn't do that much and I just felt really guilt like I felt guilty. Like, Oh, I should have used this time more wisely.
Joanna Newton: I should have done this or I should have done that. So not only. Did I not get anything done? I wasn't productive, but then I also felt shame and guilt for not doing anything and therefore also didn't rest. Do you like, do you know what I mean? Like it just is this cycle and it's all around us, right? We're hearing it all the time.
Joanna Newton: So it's so hard to break free from every
Michelle Pualani: You, it's like, you can't win, And you have this sense of shame and guilt. I want to highlight that point because for so much of us that comes up so consistently is that if we feel guilty for something, we're not actually thoroughly enjoying it. And that's actually shown too with food consumption is that if you have a positive thought process, an contentedness when you're [00:37:00] eating something, like ice cream, that your body is going to assimilate that ice cream a lot better than if you're eating the ice cream and thinking like, Oh my gosh, I shouldn't be eating this ice cream. There's, it's so not good for me. Like all of these negative thoughts, your body So if you're consistently feeling shame or guilt, then you're right, you're not allowing yourself to rest, you're not allowing yourself to enjoy, to actually benefit from the thing that you're doing at that time, which brings up a whole other discussion on presence.
Michelle Pualani: And how we can all improve our ability to stay present in the activity that we're doing at any given time. But I love that you bring up this quality of children because there are studies done about the internal state of satisfaction when performing an activity or task. So if you have two groups of children, both who are instructed to draw or who are given the opportunity to draw.
Michelle Pualani: So the group that is [00:38:00] actually given a reward for drawing, whether it's a sticker or a treat or something, they have a lower sense of satisfaction with drawing in the future than those who drew of their own prerogative. They weren't given any reward or credit or accolade or anything.
Michelle Pualani: anything related to that. They were more likely and more inclined to draw more often and enjoy the process more. So I think that we are at a disadvantage from children because in school and at home, we are so often. Quote unquote rewarded or given some sort of metrics system from such a young age.
Michelle Pualani: And so we lose the sense of internal satisfaction and internal enjoyment in what it is that we're doing. I mean, when you look at school grades in general, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any measurement, but there needs to be a different way that we approach it. That doesn't have a, so psychologically invested again with our value, with our worth, but [00:39:00] Of those metrics of hitting those numbers and you look at what it really does to students as well.
Michelle Pualani: Especially I feel like now with expectations being so high in the school setting and because of social media and what it is that we're wanting and needing from people at a younger and younger age And how we have mental health that is being so incredibly impacted by these things.
Michelle Pualani: It's not that I have all of the answers and solutions, but I think we all need to ask these larger questions of ourselves and of our relationships and how we're showing up in the world.
Joanna Newton: it'll be interesting to see what happens with my child because I have my own little like real life case study going on. And my husband and I really try, we're trying to raise kids. a daughter that has autonomy and choice and like intrinsic motivation. And it is such a challenge because one, the school system doesn't reward those things. [00:40:00] Now, I know those things will make her successful in life, but the school system, school system doesn't necessarily reward those things and support those things. it's challenging to navigate a world that is one way while trying to be a different way. It just is. There's, there's tension. And then, You know, your child being different and then sometimes we get like comments back to us because people notice other children notice that may is different than them. And then, we get things like, Oh, how come, you know, so and so thinks. I get whatever I want, right. And it comes back to us and that's not really true. But like, if you're looking at it at a different lens and more like authoritative parenting style versus ours, you might feel that way, right. And we know that her being intrinsically motivated, her having like her own, like executive functioning.
Joanna Newton: Intact [00:41:00] is important, but it's just hard. It's uncomfortable when everyone around you follows a different Rule book. And when the school system follows a different rule book, because right, if she's not hitting those benchmarks and those metrics, they want us to be stressed about it and they want us to be pushing her. But I know that she needs to learn those things when she is, she's ready. And I know she will. Do you know what I mean? And then, and then I see those glimmers of like, this is working because then she'll, you know, make a beautiful drawing. That's like so intricate and so wonderful just because she wants to create. And it's purely for the sake of creating and not for a grade and not for a good job and just because she enjoys it. And that's amazing to watch.
Michelle Pualani: And this isn't just about kids. This is about us too, because we are so often looking again, to those external validation pieces, those opportunities [00:42:00] to impress someone, the opportunity to build, be somebody, to have some sort of identity that's tied into all of these other things outside of just who we are and how we were created.
Michelle Pualani: We as adults can have this same conversation because there is so much external pressure and there is so much pressure in business and there is so much pressure in the online space to be a certain way, act a certain way, do a certain way, show up a certain way, put this text on your screen, only perform this kind of content.
Michelle Pualani: Like, Oh gosh, it's just so boxy. And it's made me realize how disconnected I have gotten away from myself and who I am and how. I show up in the online space and we've had some conversations on the podcast about authenticity and being your genuine, authentic self and showing up in your personal brand that way.
Michelle Pualani: But when you have so much noise coming at you all the time from the entertainment, from media, from social, from newsletters, from courses or [00:43:00] programs that you signed up for, even from coaches and mentors that you can often lose your sense of self and then you are. turning down and you maybe cannot tune into your own intuition any longer.
Michelle Pualani: And then you forget why you started doing this in the first place. And you don't realize, that intrinsic motivation or that direction, and you kind of lose that sense of purpose, which I think again, with the posts that I'm seeing in the social space are a huge part of that. A lot of what they're talking about.
Michelle Pualani: Are tied to external circumstances, losing the why of what it is that they're doing in the first place and feeling like they're not meeting the expectations of their clients, their audience, even themselves when they set goals and projections for themselves. the reflections that we can do for ourselves to better tune into how we feel about ourselves, how we're showing up in the world.
Michelle Pualani: where that sense of worth, sense of value, sense of self kind of comes from and [00:44:00] how it's impacting the choices that you're making. And then therefore dictating the external circumstances, instead of looking at your external circumstances and saying, what does this mean about me? What does this say about me?
Michelle Pualani: What is this? Um, determine about my worth, my sense of self and my value.
Joanna Newton: If you're listening to this and you're. Maybe overwhelmed, right? Like this is, we're talking about a lot of different things, some practical, some more like in your head, if, if you're feeling like if you have this sense of unworthiness, if you have contingencies in your life that, you know, are keeping you, you're saying, Oh, I will rest when I will do this when, um, I encourage you to just take some time to reflect on those things because you are worthy just as you are.
Joanna Newton: And if you are telling us a story about something that happened, we would look at you and think you are worthy and want the best for you and, and all of that. [00:45:00] And, and I think of moving on is recognizing it, right? For me. You know, I've shared that I'm struggling with this concept of rest because I'm on this, been on this journey for a year of like really loving myself and putting myself first.
Joanna Newton: I'm doing so much better with it than I ever have. when those thoughts creep in of like, Oh, I'm not worthy to take this rest. I go yes, I am. I'm not feeling well. I deserve rest. I don't need, it's just part of humans, right? Like, we need these things. And I start to like, try to stop my, like, stop my thoughts because I can recognize that they're just not true.
Michelle Pualani: Absolutely. And I think that it's a constant practice. We're never in this state of homeostasis where everything is peachy and rainbows and perfect all the time. We're going to ebb and we're going to flow and we're kind of have different circumstances that we face. The important thing is to, again, figure out your internal compass.
Michelle Pualani: Figure out your internal ocean [00:46:00] or setting or whatever that feels like to you or whatever that looks like, whatever you can visualize for yourself as being your barometer for calm, for peace, for acceptance, for happiness and joy, for relaxation and https: otter. ai Oftentimes we're letting our external circumstances again, of being.
Michelle Pualani: And that's when we get the stress and the overwhelm and the frustration and the imposter syndrome and the feelings of not enough and the feelings of doubt and the feelings of insecurity. insecurity that come out of it. So if you're struggling with any of those things, it's important to tune back inward and maybe put down the phone because social media is a place where you constantly compare yourself.
Michelle Pualani: You're constantly making judgments and you're constantly feeling like, Oh, what I'm doing is not enough. It's okay to want to be better. It's okay to have those learnings, those goals, those things that you're working toward. But if [00:47:00] you were to take Any of those away and any of your past achievements and successes, what and how do you feel about yourself?
Michelle Pualani: And I think that's the most important question. If you can walk away with anything today is recognizing how do I feel about myself independent of all of the external identities, all of the accolades, all of the success, the growth, the following, the email subscribers, the sales, everything that I've created up until this point, and I'm going to create in the future.
Michelle Pualani: How do I feel about myself? and find that sense of personal fulfillment and joy throughout that.
Joanna Newton: some days I wake up and I think I'm like, I just am feeling it. Right? Like I think I've got it all together. I'm doing all the things I'm checking all the things off my list. Like I'm like the baddest business bitch. Alive. You know what I mean? Like you have those moments where that's who you feel like you are. And then that same day later that day, [00:48:00] I can think that I'm a mess. You know what I mean? And that I don't have it together and I don't know what I'm doing.
Joanna Newton: Like that ebb and flow is totally real. and I think it's actually likely way more common than we think. Do you know what I mean? Like People with millions of followers probably feel that way. People with, you know, businesses worth millions of dollars probably feel that way. And I think if we can recognize in ourselves, this is normal, especially if you're growing, especially if you're stretching, especially you're, you're going to have those moments that you feel them, other people feel them. And when you can separate that from like your worthiness as a human being, you're going to be able to handle those moments, right? You're not going to feel the guilt. You're not going to feel the shame. You're not going to feel those like really negative emotions that go along with it. You'll just be like, you know what?
Joanna Newton: Not so on top of my game at this moment. That's okay. that's a, that's a natural part of this
Michelle Pualani: Yeah, so figure out what this means for you [00:49:00] and how you're going to engage with it. If you do choose to post on social media with these truth dumps, That I'm calling them and actually pull back the curtain and share some of these things. We support you. We cheer you on and we hope that by sharing them, you're removing some of the shame and guilt around them that you can actually identify and recognize that, you know, it's okay and normal for me to feel this way, but I can also shift and I can change that because I have that control and I get to be in charge of my feelings, my emotions, and how I approach and show up in the world.
Michelle Pualani: And I get to determine my own worthiness and value, independent of anything else out there.
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