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Joanna Newton: I'm excited for all of you to meet Wave Wild. Wave is a TikTok marketing and trends expert. She has helped thousands of creators and business owners grow their TikTok accounts with a content [00:01:00] first in a community approach So that they can make more impact and profit with a background in personal branding, wave launched a brand on tech talk as the queen of trend alerts, which then started the movement of trend alert style videos that have become a mainstay within the social media industry. Wave has participated in creator community programs with TikTok and YouTube and regularly appears in national media, top rated podcasts and social media summits. We can't wait to dive in and learn from her expertise. Hi Wave, welcome to the show.
Wave Wyld: Hello ladies, thank you so much for having me here.
Joanna Newton: I'm excited. To dig right in. Today, we're going to talk all about TikTok, how to grow, how to get views, how to hopefully get out of that 200 view jail everyone seems to think about. Maybe even talk about, is it real? I'd love to know. Um, but before we dive in to growth on TikTok, we have to [00:02:00] talk about what everyone is talking about right now. The Looming TikTok ban. What are your thoughts?
Wave Wyld: Yeah, you're hitting me with the hard questions first. Okay, so yeah, I don't think TikTok's going to be banned. I'm just going to come out and say it. I don't think TikTok will get banned. I think that it will, this law will be overturned. Um, we know TikTok has publicly said that they are going to fight it as a violation of the First Amendment.
Wave Wyld: And I think TikTok's going to tie this up in the legal system for a few years. So I don't think it's going to get banned. I don't think TikTok's going to get sold or bought by American company. I just think that the law is going to be overturned and it's going to be a lengthy legal process. We know this is all about money and power and politics.
Wave Wyld: So you can bet TikTok has a backup plan and they are ready. [00:03:00] Um, and you know, as a, as a business owner on the app, I would say if you're thinking about what should I do? I just wrote an email about this, but, uh, I've always been big on building your list through TikTok. Uh, so of course you want to be really focusing on that right now.
Wave Wyld: So making some content that is promoting your freebies, your lead magnets, your opt ins, whatever it is that you do to collect email addresses, promoting that through your content, pinning those to the top of your page, and really focusing on that list building. There's other things you can do as well, uh, but that is, I would say, the main one.
Wave Wyld: We know, and this happens not just on TikTok too, on other platforms that your account can disappear at any time, right? So it is rented space, always be list building, and diversifying.
Michelle Pualani: Really good introductory concept, right? The ban. It's bringing up this conversation, but a really good learning lesson for all of us from a business [00:04:00] perspective, especially as digital coaches, online creators, course builders, even e commerce is that we need to think about the network that we're building in the online space that isn't governed by one single channel.
Michelle Pualani: No one should be putting all of their eggs in one basket and just investing in this one place as this is where my stream of traffic is coming from. From I'm going to just. Just stick with this. It's good to build that way, but diversifying like you're saying is so, so important. So for all of us, it's just a reminder how to build more of a solid foundation for our business or the creator economy that we're choosing to take part in, whatever that looks like.
Michelle Pualani: Even if you don't consider yourself a quote unquote business, whether that's being an influencer, being a content creator and how you're. Kind of running that online presence as a whole. So thank you for alleviating that. I've kind of been watching it. I personally wasn't super concerned about TikTok getting banned because I have the same [00:05:00] perspective.
Michelle Pualani: I don't think they would let it go under, not with the success that it is had up until this point. And I think I was looking at The wealthiest people in the world recently and the TikTok founder is on the list of billionaires. I think sits right around like 48 billion.
Michelle Pualani: So with that much money and that much happening within one app, one business, it's not going to go away. Like it would take, a lot for it to get banned, go away for something to happen that dramatic, but I have been seeing a lot of the content creation around it, which I think has been really interesting because creators are jumping on the bandwagon of talking about TikTok getting banned.
Michelle Pualani: And it just kind of creates that conversation. It creates that buzz.
Michelle Pualani: I feel that anything that is kind of dramatic, over the top, polarizing, or kind of newsworthy that has that kind of trigger point warning on it is what is successful in the online space. And as someone who's a coach first, a practitioner first, kind of like a [00:06:00] teacher and educator, but I don't always identify as a content creator, how do I fit into that?
Michelle Pualani: Do I either try to be that dramatic and kind of meet the goal? Need or the demand of social media for what people are looking for when it comes to kind of interesting content, or do I kind of like stay in my lane of doing what I think is best and not trying to kind of like quote unquote fit into that.
Wave Wyld: yeah, that is a great question. I would say, first of all, you have to be authentically you. So when you said like trying to be dramatic or trying to be triggering, I wouldn't recommend that. But what you're basically talking about is what I call like opinion based content. There is a lot of that on TikTok and it does really well.
Wave Wyld: It is people just sharing their opinions about anything. And what's actually really popular in the last little bit is stitching someone's video who's, you know, giving an opinion and then giving an opinion on their opinion, [00:07:00] which is, which is kind of funny. But yeah, this does do really well. So you could think of making this.
Wave Wyld: type of content as the top of the funnel content. Now, I do encourage business owners, not necessarily content creators, business owners, to leverage this opinion based content. You don't have to try to make it dramatic or triggering, but you can share a perspective or your take on another trending topic.
Wave Wyld: Um, and as long as you can make that unique, uh, and in your voice, I think it can be really helpful. I mean, people do. really identify with your mission and your values. That's how we connect to other people. So when you're in the online space as an entrepreneur, it's really important to speak about these things that you value that go beyond your business because it's going to attract the right people to you.
Wave Wyld: So I am all for leveraging that opinion based content. [00:08:00] However, I do not recommend spreading misinformation. I see a lot of this on TikTok. I. I just stitched a video yesterday about, uh, TikTok notes, this new app. Someone was saying all kinds of things that are completely just incorrect and wrong. So I stitched the video and I showed my receipts.
Wave Wyld: We know that's slang for like showing the proof. But. I think it would be helpful if creators did be more transparent that this is, you know, an opinion, uh, or this is a claim or a theory, because a lot of people just share these things, um, versus, you know, uh, when it comes to sharing information, that you're sharing the correct information.
Wave Wyld: And when I do that, I always, always back up the information I'm sharing. It usually comes from, uh, news articles. Or I will show, uh, screenshots of things, like verifying, showing those receipts that this is the correct information. So, yes [00:09:00] for opinion based content, doing it in your own way, sharing your perspective.
Wave Wyld: It doesn't have to be dramatic or triggering. And no to spreading misinformation for views.
Joanna Newton: That's such great advice and something that I think can be hard for specifically for like traditional kind of business owners, where I mean, not like online content creators, teachers and coaches, but for a more typical call. Brick and mortar business or brand or someone selling goods and services using opinion and using that sort of really thought leadership to get views and get attention. I think about when I started in, in social media, which was, I won't even say how many years ago, it was a forever ago, this sort of brands and, and companies. Showing that type of thought leadership, like just wasn't a thing like a Brit, a typical [00:10:00] brand Instagram account just had pretty glossy pictures and you know what the new offer was and what they were selling.
Joanna Newton: And if it got anywhere into any other type of content, they went lifestyle, right? Like here's our company picnic, here's our CEO at a trip, things like that. And Tik TOK really. It changed the game, I think, across all social media platforms about how brands, how business owners, how coaches, creators, entrepreneurs interact on social media.
Wave Wyld: I totally agree, and I think it's because of Gen Z, right? Uh, they are so aware of everything that's going on in the world, and, you know, they, they speak out. They're not afraid to speak out on things that doesn't seem right, uh, to them. So it's, it's really interesting to see how that dynamic is changing.
Michelle Pualani: TikTok really has [00:11:00] transformed our experience, I think in the real world as much as it has online. I don't know about you, but I often like extract not just information, but stories. People experiences. Oh, I saw this thing on tick tock the other day, and I relate them to our everyday lives. It's really almost breaking down the barrier between All of us and it's given us access to things that we didn't have access to before and relatability and content and education and these things that light us up.
Michelle Pualani: I think there's a lot of education. There's a lot of humor. There's a lot of inspiration and motivation. And obviously you can go down that. algorithm tunnel and route of negativity and misinformation, and there's some very odd things out there as well. So I'd love to actually know a little bit more about the algorithm in terms of what your thoughts are on that because I get all kinds of different misinformation or misguided education in terms of like, [00:12:00] it doesn't matter.
Michelle Pualani: It does matter. Timing matters. Hashtags matter. What you're doing in the first three seconds. I know we get all those like tips and tricks, so it's not so much about that, but overall, how much should I be considering the algorithm when I'm thinking about creating content or whether I'm just looking at What I want to create, how I'm speaking to my audience, and how I'm showing up in that way.
Wave Wyld: well, gosh, there's so much to say about that question. There's the algorithm in general, and then there's the way that you create content. So I'll start with the algorithm in general. It's a recommendation system. So I think most people know this. If you start engaging with a certain type of content, like I love watching animal videos, I just was on panda talk.
Wave Wyld: Oh my God. And then I got onto sloth talk and then koala bears. Oh my gosh. The cuteness is just so amazing. Like making me melt anyways, uh, it will start to show you more of those videos. So that's why, you know, if you start watching some more of the political content, then you're going to go down a rabbit [00:13:00] hole of those types of videos.
Wave Wyld: Now it will break it up a little bit in between. It's not every single video, but it's, it's a lot of them. It will break it up with the odd, random viral video of a different topic. Or general topic, but when it comes to creating, I actually teach what I call a content first approach. I am really, really big on this.
Wave Wyld: And what that just means is it's all about the message that you're trying to communicate. That's what short form video is. We're just communicating message through a different medium instead of through, you know, like an Instagram photo and a caption. We're doing it through short form video. So we just want to communicate a message and we know 100 percent that our video performance is dependent on how people engage with that content.
Wave Wyld: So whether they watch it and then the engagement factors, likes, comments, shares, and saves. If people resonate with your message, if they engage with it, your video is [00:14:00] going to do well. It will get lots of views regardless of. What sound you used, what time you posted, what hashtags you used. So I call those things, you know, strategies.
Wave Wyld: And strategies are good. They're things, you know, you need to think about and implement, but you do want to focus on the message. So how you are making people feel through your video. What, um, is it valuable? Is it entertaining? Uh, are you telling a story and getting them engaged in that way? There's so many things there that can be done really well to increase that watch time and the engagement.
Wave Wyld: So that's what I mean by content first, uh, approach. So when you're creating, that's what you want to focus on. So, cause so many people come to me and they get hung up on like, what are the hashtags should I use? What time should I post? What, you know, what, um, sounds should I be using? And I'm like, just focus on the message first.
Joanna Newton: That was super helpful. And I think [00:15:00] one of the things I know people get really caught up with when it comes to social media is like virality and views and, you know, getting likes, but at the end of the day, you need to get the right people for you, especially if you're an entrepreneur, right? You're not just going for, you know, trying to be a, an influencer, a content creator, even influencers need to have an audience though, if they're going to get.
Joanna Newton: Brand deals, but that's a whole nother conversation to have. Getting the right people to see your content is important. So I love what you're talking about here in terms of a message first approach. Like, what do you want to say? Right? Like, what do you want to talk about? And what I talk to my clients a lot about is focus on that first, and then we can help you dress up The, the content, so it has like a good caption and it's edited well and it's doing those things.
Joanna Newton: But if you don't have like that really core interesting story or [00:16:00] message that people are going to like actually want to connect with and want to engage with, actually, I've never found those other things to matter except they help boost good content to start with. Um, you talked a little bit earlier, you said something about a top of funnel.
Joanna Newton: Yeah. Yeah. video. And it was really funny because I literally had this conversation with someone this morning talking about your different types of videos and different types of content also being a funnel, that some are top of funnel and some aren't. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
Wave Wyld: Yeah, that's just another way I teach TikTok is that you create content for all the parts of the funnel. So we know our very basic marketing funnel at the top of the funnel, it's wider, you're attracting more people. It's like you're throwing out that fishnet, trying to collect the fish into the ocean.
Wave Wyld: You're just trying to attract people. [00:17:00] And You know, gain awareness that they know that you exist, right? People can't buy something from you unless they know that you exist first. So that's what I mean by that top of the funnel content. And then I recommend different types of content that you can post specifically for that top of the funnel, such as that opinion based content.
Wave Wyld: Educational content works well, trending content works well at top of the funnel, and I have some other strategies for that as well. And then, you know, at the middle of the funnel, right, that is where people are starting to consider you a bit more. So that's where you want to connect with your audience and nurture them.
Wave Wyld: So that's where I encourage a lot of this more personal type of content. Maybe it's inspirational. Maybe that's the behind the scenes type of content, or maybe it's more of the storytelling about you and your business, and again, what you stand for, that type of thing as well, in that middle of the funnel.
Wave Wyld: And [00:18:00] then at the bottom of the funnel, we know we are trying to get our followers to take action and actually become a customer, to make that decision to purchase. So that's where you are, you know, creating promotional content. So very specific types of videos that are encouraging people to buy that product or that service.
Wave Wyld: Uh, and it doesn't have to be for money. It can be also, that can be your lead magnets. That can be a challenge that you're running or a Facebook group, like another, wherever you have another community, it can be a lot of different things, just getting them to take action, uh, on the next step, uh, to work with you.
Wave Wyld: So, So that's what I mean by making content for all types of the funnel.
Michelle Pualani: Hitting every single point of the journey that your potential prospective customer or buyer or client or student is going to go through. And there's a lot of people out there who are going to be in your audience that aren't necessarily going to buy from you. I think there is an important step that we [00:19:00] have to take to be able to, like you said, cast that net versus convert and purchase.
Michelle Pualani: So I'm kind of curious. You know, when you talk about message, so much of what we do and how we show up in our videos is language. I think about this a lot because I've struggled in the past to have the right language and that's like text on screen, your initial hook to like draw people in. And again, sitting in that seat of having been a teacher, an educator, a coach for so long, I usually go right into Like, what I'm talking about to help someone solve the problem, right?
Michelle Pualani: And I know that from a content marketing perspective, you're supposed to talk about the what, not necessarily the how, and you're kind of pulling them in with these different hooks and these different language pieces. So what is the biggest distinction between the language that you're using at like your top of funnel versus the language you're using at your.
Michelle Pualani: Bottom of funnel or the like last converting piece versus the let's talk to everyone and drawing a bunch of fish drawing [00:20:00] a bunch of people
Wave Wyld: Yeah, great question. First of all, I just want to say, I love that you brought up language. Cause I really, really think short form video is all copywriting at the end of the day. And if you have, um, good copywriting skills, you'll be fine at short form video. And like the hook is so important. That is all copywriting.
Wave Wyld: So as far as the. You know, messaging at different parts of the funnel. I think most importantly, it doesn't matter what type of content you're making at the funnel. You have to have a hook like that is just so important. You can't, you gotta get people to stop scrolling and actually watch your video. So that is, you know what I always say, the number one way to get more views on Tik TOK is that hook.
Wave Wyld: So, um, that doesn't really change. Now. Again, when I'm creating content, every time I make a [00:21:00] video, there is a reason for it. There's a purpose. So if it is at that bottom of the funnel, then maybe your language changes in that you want to use more call to actions, or you want to speak more to, you know, specific pain points, or pleasure points, or talking about results, or showing before and afters, that type of thing.
Wave Wyld: We know that there's a lot of different ways that you can sell through video. Whereas at the top of the funnel, it is more broad because you're not selling to them right away. You're just, that's, you know, making that type of video. The focus and the goal is to attract more people. So again, it comes back to what is the goal of every video that you're making?
Wave Wyld: Are you purposely trying to promote a service or a product? Are you trying to get more followers? Uh, so just being really clear about that before you make the content.
Joanna Newton: And I, I find a lot of creators tend to be better at one of the naturally better at one of those than the others. Like some people are really great about [00:22:00] making that super wide reach content that has a great hook, is on trend, is opinionated, a little controversial, and they can get. Tons of views, tons of followers in that way by doing that, but they might struggle to actually get people in their funnels, actually get people to move to their website. And I think some, some people as creators have the opposite problem. Like they're really good at, at creating that type of content that's saying, come try my thing or, or get my course or whatever that is, but then struggle to actually see that wide reach. Right. They're out there, they're making content, they're doing all of the things, but just struggling to have a video be seen by more people.
Joanna Newton: People talk about the 200 view jail, right? Like I'm stuck in the 200 view jail. If there's a creator out there and if maybe we have some listeners here are struggling with that, like how would [00:23:00] you suggest if they're stuck there to get out of that, right? Like, get. More eyeballs on their videos.
Wave Wyld: Yeah, well, first of all, you have to be really clear. This is something a lot of creators, um, Don't know and it still shocks me is you have to be really clear on who do you want to attract? To your page, to your account, to your business. Who do you want to have as a follower? So when you know that you can kind of start speaking their language and you can use that through hooks.
Wave Wyld: So I'm going back to the hooks a little bit. Um, they are very important. I mean, there's a lot of different types of hooks. I go super, super deep in my programs, uh, into hooks. Uh, so. Just know that there's many different types from visual hooks to the things that you say at the beginning of the video to even hooks that are purposely meant to sound like they are not scripted, but back to [00:24:00] the audience is.
Wave Wyld: If you want to attract moms, you can say like, hey, you know, in text on screen, like, hey mamas or whatever in your video, like, it's so clear, like, or if you're a student in high school, right? If that's who you're trying to attack, you can kind of use that language, um, to get more views, more of the right views, right?
Wave Wyld: Um, that's what we're talking about, getting more of those views. Targeted views rather than trying to go viral. Other things I think are really important that a lot of people don't do are looking at their analytics. This is, there's so much data in there. It blows my mind how much TikTok gives you. I think one of the most important things to look at, if you're going to look at just one thing, look at your average watch time.
Wave Wyld: Please, so many people don't do this. And I get it. There's a lot of people on TikTok saying, make longer videos, you know, do this, do that. And it can be really confusing. But here's the thing, [00:25:00] like, I don't know. I don't recommend making longer videos if your average watch time on a one minute video is eight seconds.
Wave Wyld: You need to learn how to create content that engages people and keep them watching your videos before you can make longer content. There's a bit of skill and practice to it. So, uh, looking at analytics, average watch time, I have done this with so, so many students, where they were making one minute videos, and they were getting like an average of 15 to 20 seconds.
Wave Wyld: Average watch time and I will tell you 15 to 20 seconds of average watch time is amazing on TikTok. If you can get people to watch that long on your videos, amazing. So all we did was make her videos around 30 seconds long. We scripted them. We cut out a lot of the fluff and the rambling and her views like tripled.
Wave Wyld: And when you get more views, you do get more visibility. So that's more [00:26:00] opportunity to grow your audience. tripled her views and our audience in like a month. I can't remember the exact amount, but it was probably at least 20 to 30, 000 followers. you got to find your sweet spot.
Wave Wyld: That's really, really going to help you. Uh, I know my sweet spot on my account. It's like, I've trained the algorithm. I can't do more than 20 seconds. Anytime I make a video longer, it completely flops. So, uh, you just got to know your sweet spot. Other things that you can do, uh, looking at the new creator search insights tool for content topics that can be really helpful.
Wave Wyld: This is where TikTok is actually recommending and telling you what people are searching on the app. So making more content based on that can be really helpful. Uh, and you know, some of the things we've already talked about, uh, thinking of the, uh, all the stages of the marketing funnel. So making a variety of content, that's another mistake I see people make is they're like only doing trends.
Wave Wyld: And it's like, [00:27:00] okay, if you're a financial coach, like, I don't even know that you're a financial coach. You're just making silly trends. Uh, so. Yeah, making that variety of content and having that strategy will help you stay consistent,
Michelle Pualani: Sometimes we get into the rut of doing the same thing over and over again, thinking we're going to get a different result, when we have to look at it as experimentation. Like, we are scientists, and even though there are a lot of people like you, Wave, who can give so much good information and so much good information, practices, principles, tactics, and strategies, we still have to try them for ourselves.
Michelle Pualani: We have to bring about our own authentic voice, our messaging, our purpose, what it is that we talk about, what it is that we do, that all has to come through. And that's not at all replicatable by anyone else. And what has worked for someone, It's not necessarily going to be able to copy paste work for us, right?
Michelle Pualani: We can borrow, we can learn, we can analyze, we can assess, but we, at the end of the day, we have to put it into practice and take that action on our own [00:28:00] to see any change, any results, any, anything, any growth. based on having a go at it and just trying. So for someone who might be nervous about trying, or for someone who is looking at TikTok or even social media and thinking like, I'm a business owner.
Michelle Pualani: I'm respectable. I'm an authority figure. I have to be professional. Uh, how do I even engage with these platforms? Where do I start in order to not just get myself on them, but also to get myself in front of people, but doing it in a way that's aligned with. How I feel like I want to show up and is thinking again, because I come from this place of like, I don't want to deal with social media.
Michelle Pualani: Social media is silly and ridiculous and people are just dancing and people are pointing at things and oh, that's not a problem. That's not my brand. That's not my identity. What are some of the things that you could tell them to help encourage them to engage on social media and what it could look like for them [00:29:00] if they went into it in a way that worked for them?
Wave Wyld: best thing you can do is on TikTok, use the search tool and put some keywords in there that you use in your industry or your niche and go consume content. So instead of scrolling the FYP and seeing other random videos, look specifically for your niche or industry. and start to watch it very mindfully.
Wave Wyld: So we're not passively just consuming videos here. You really got to be careful and study that content. So notice things like what are they doing at the beginning of their video to get attention? What are people saying in the comments? That is a gold mine of information right there. What are, how are they getting engagement?
Wave Wyld: Um, what sounds are they using? How are they communicating? That message, like what was that key takeaway from that video and how did they communicate it and what are some other ways that they could communicate it by [00:30:00] thinking about all of these things and answering those questions, it's going to give you an idea of what creating content could look like for you.
Wave Wyld: right? It's going to get those creative juices flowing. Maybe you liked how someone said something, but you thought, Oh, I could actually do it this way in another way. And then I could list things out. And then I could share this statistic or whatever that's been on my mind. Like it will get those creative juices flowing.
Wave Wyld: So it's going to feel a little bit more in alignment with you. Um, so I hope that helps. That's like the number one thing I always recommend when you're brand new to the app is to just get that right. Yeah. feel for the way people are creating and also for the culture on the app. So noticing again, um, maybe like little things that seem weird to you at the beginning, but then become normal.
Wave Wyld: Like the slang, there's a lot of slang on Tik TOK or the memes or these funny trends that people are doing.
Joanna Newton: That, that's [00:31:00] so helpful and one of the things I'm hearing across a lot of what you're talking about is there's so much strategy that goes into social media. And I think a lot of people, when they think about social media, they think like you just happen to go viral or they think like you're just putting stuff on the internet and people are going to see it. And, and. Or even get so caught up in, oh, is the, not that you shouldn't have like, uh, correct spelling and grammar, but like, they're like, oh, is it correct? Right? And, uh, People, if they want to be successful on social media, have to think as strategically as they do about it as writing a sales page, or creating a website, or creating their actual products, right?
Joanna Newton: Like, there has to be really deep strategy behind the work that you do and, you know, I think all of us have, have worked with, [00:32:00] with folks in some capacity when it comes to creating those strategies. I know not everybody highly values it. When you say, okay, I can come in and help you make a social media strategy.
Joanna Newton: They are like, Oh, I can just hire like a 6 VA to post for me. Right. And not that there's anything wrong with having a VA. Right. But, but the idea that it's just going to happen upon itself. If you just put content on the internet is like really unrealistic.
Wave Wyld: Yeah, and unfortunately, I think that's the way most people do it. They're throwing spaghetti at the wall, uh, seeing what hits. And then when something hits, they're like, okay, I'm just going to repeat that. And then they just do the same thing over and then they get stuck in a certain thing. And then they're trying to figure out how to get out of it.
Wave Wyld: I've seen that time and time again.
Michelle Pualani: um, I know that I've done that in the past and feel like I get off track. So when it comes to strategy, I know like the content pillars and the [00:33:00] educate and inspire and entertain and you have to hit on these things and I've definitely mapped out strategy in the past, but then sometimes I feel like I have a hard time sticking to it or staying consistent with it, maybe because I'm not getting the results.
Michelle Pualani: So if someone maps out a content strategy and they're not seeing the results that they want to see, what do you think they should address? We've talked about the hook. We've talked about like being more entertaining and educational and inspirational, but if someone's like putting out the content consistently, they're doing the work and they're like, man, this just isn't hitting for people.
Wave Wyld: Well, this is exactly why people hire me, right? I know this time and time again. And really what it comes down to is needing. Another set of eyes on what they're doing because sometimes it's just hard to get out of yourself Right, you see it as one way and just getting another set of eyes on your content to get some feedback Could could be really helpful.
Wave Wyld: So, [00:34:00] you know, I'm not saying hire me right now, but I'm saying, you know Even if you go into these Facebook groups, I see it all the time. And a lot of the marketing Facebook groups and stuff, you know, people asking for feedback or another set of eyes on their content, then you're looking for suggestions for improvement that could be helpful.
Wave Wyld: So maybe that's all it takes. Because if all of that is happening and and you're and it's not working, then I would definitely say like there's just something off maybe, um, in the messaging, it could be, it could be so many things. It could be these your status of your account on TikTok. Like you did something that restricted your account.
Wave Wyld: Uh, it could be just your content creation skills. Like, everyone kind of thinks that they make really great content, don't they? Yeah, my content is so great. I don't know why it's not getting views. I hear that a lot. Like I post consistently, uh, and then I look and I'm like, there's, there's some room for improvement [00:35:00] for sure.
Wave Wyld: Uh, so, you know, that's, that's what I can recommend if, if you're really, uh, really stuck there, get professional help.
Joanna Newton: And if you really want results, like if your goal is results, if it's growth, if it's sales, if it's traffic, you have to be humble enough to say something's not working. I need outside help and to listen to that outside help. Even if you're. You have a lot of followers. Even if you're really successful, if something's not quite working, finding someone that can come in and, and help you figure it out, whether it's posting in a Facebook group, right?
Joanna Newton: To say like, Hey, I have this, it's not doing well. What am I doing wrong? And crowdsourcing feedback or actually hiring a specialist to help with a really specific problem. You know, there's something I think sometimes we think of content creators and business owners. We, you know, have all the answers and all of the solutions, but I think successful business [00:36:00] owners are likely the most humble people who are willing to take, listen to feedback. And apply it.
Wave Wyld: Absolutely.
Joanna Newton: One thing I want to make sure we hit on today, kind of switching gears a little bit, are some myths around content creation. So I hear a lot when I go on TikTok and I'm getting advice from people on how to grow on TikTok. Some people will tell you things like you have to edit inside the app for it to do the best.
Joanna Newton: If you edit outside and put your captions on outside, the video won't perform. Or if you post that same video in multiple places, TikTok will know and won't show it to people, right? Those are some of the myths I've heard, or maybe they're not myths. That's what I'd like for you to discuss. Like, are those things true? Can you talk a little bit about that?
Wave Wyld: Uh, that is what I call absolute BS.
Joanna Newton: Yes.
Joanna Newton: Thank you.
Wave Wyld: [00:37:00] all comes down to the content. If you make a video that resonates with a lot of people, it's gonna go viral. regardless if it was made in TikTok or CapCut or whatever, any app where you put your captions, right? It, it's all about the message. Uh, so yeah, a lot of that stuff is, is completely just BS.
Wave Wyld: And I think they're either uneducated. I'm not sure why they'd say those things, or that's just what other people are saying. So they're just repeating it. But, um, yeah. Yeah, that's, uh, that stuff kind of does drive me a little bit nuts at times because I see so much of it and, you know, like, especially, here's one thing, Creator Search Insights, my Creator Search Insights told me that that the most searched topic, uh, related to TikTok is the best time to post.
Wave Wyld: So I made a video about it and I was like, Why are you all obsessed with the best [00:38:00] time to post? Cause they're really, like, that's such a small factor in your video performance. We don't even get data and analytics on that, that how much that's helped you. So it's really not something to focus on if you have this strong belief that, you know, The best time to post is at four o'clock Eastern Standard Time and that your video is only going to do well, then just stick with that because it's going to make you feel better and psychologically, you're just going to believe it.
Wave Wyld: Uh, otherwise you can experiment, but there really is no best time to post. So it drives me nuts when. Social media companies or agencies put out content saying, you know, Oh, we took a survey of a thousand people. Okay. A thousand out of like 170 million on Tik TOK, uh, that said that the best time to post was 12 o'clock on Wednesday.
Wave Wyld: Makes no sense. So this kind of stuff does, um, annoy me at times. And that's why, uh, in my own business, I kind of just have to put the blinders on and [00:39:00] stay focused on my own message. Um, so yeah, that's, those are some of the myths. If you have more of them, let me know. Um, uh, there, I hear like just so much, yeah, about those types of things. Remember, a lot of people who say those things have an agenda and a purpose, like the whole creator search insights tool, right? As soon as that came out, I saw so much content, people saying, this is going to help you go viral. TikTok's helping you go viral. I'm like, okay, just because you make a video, again, that's recommended.
Wave Wyld: by the, whatever TikTok's recommending as a topic doesn't mean it's going to go viral. Like they're really giving that impression. So that type of marketing stuff really, um, bothers me because I'm more on the, I guess, marketing with heart or ethical kind of side of marketing. Uh, and I don't like those types of hooks or clickbait type of [00:40:00] content.
Wave Wyld: And, um, Unfortunately, there's a lot of creators that will do that because they're either monetizing through views, uh, and getting paid by TikTok or they have like another agenda. So this is why I always recommend to mindfully consume content and look for the receipts, right? Where, where's the proof in that?
Michelle Pualani: So refreshing to hear and also incredibly freeing because I feel like we get tied to all of these myths or these strategies that we're supposed to be focusing on, the tips and tricks that people do show up and they're very convincing. Time, hashtags, the way in which you're editing, formatting, like all of these little pieces that maybe play a role, but really aren't at the heart and core of what you're doing, which I want to just highlight for the listener, is messaging.
Michelle Pualani: What are you showing up with and why? Purposefully putting into the world. How are you going to connect with that one person that you are speaking to? That ideal [00:41:00] client, that ideal audience member, that person who really needs to hear your message and connect with what you're saying and relate to that.
Michelle Pualani: But on a similar vein, one of the objections, and I think, uh, The things that come up for business owners is thinking, oh, that worked for them, but it will never work for me. Oh, you talk about TikTok, for example, or on Instagram, you are talking about how to be successful on Instagram, or you're a business owner coaching other business owners to build a course because you made money making courses.
Michelle Pualani: So I think there's a lot of rhetoric in the online space about, Oh, it works for you because X, Y, Z, fill in the blank. So can you talk about some examples of other industries, other topics that clients and students that you've had that have been successful, that are kind of outside of the niche of social media growth, as well as like business building that have been successful and that can leverage TikTok or other social media platforms to reach their audience, to connect and to convert buyers.
Wave Wyld: [00:42:00] Sure. Well, I think, you know, first of all, it's really important to know that the amount of followers you have is huge. just a vanity metric. More followers doesn't always equal more success or conversions. So that's why I'm always big on using TikTok to attract your ideal followers and speak to your target audience when you're a business owner.
Wave Wyld: And then just So, you know, I just want to work on the conversions, right? Uh, even at the point where I'm at on my TikTok account, I don't care if I get more followers. I just want to convert the ones that already follow me. I want more conversions there. Uh, so, you know. I'm trying to think of specific examples off the top of my head, but I've worked with a lot of like fitness and nutrition coaches that have done really well on Tick Tock, um, some real estate agents, um, authors, it [00:43:00] just, it's really all, Over the place.
Wave Wyld: Um, I mean, I've also worked with a lot of influencers and content creators as well.
Michelle Pualani: think for a lot of us sometimes, and I hear this in a lot of my business groups, that feel like what they're talking about or their particular content or their niche isn't going to work or isn't going to get the reach, the engagement, the conversion that they're looking for. Because, oh, I'm not talking about social media growth on a social media platform, and so I'm not talking about business courses and making a lot of money with business courses, and so therefore I'm not going to get the reach and engagement.
Michelle Pualani: So I think sometimes when we come, again, as professionals, As practitioners, as coaches, as creators who are in like a, an interesting or different niche or focus, or they have something different to offer, they can look at what other successful people have done and say, well, that would never work for me in my niche or my industry, or people aren't going to want to pay [00:44:00] attention, engage, or buy from me because I'm not offering
Michelle Pualani: some sort of ROI on business growth or reach or engagement in that way.
Wave Wyld: Okay, well, I can share a story of a student of mine who's actually Not crushing it on Tik Tok, she's crushing it on Reels. So this is, this is kind of funny, but well, I actually have a lot of students. Some of them do really well on Tik Tok and some of them do better on Reels. Some of them hate Reels and they're crushing it on Tik Tok.
Wave Wyld: So she makes. She's, um, had several different accounts on TikTok. The first one that I found her on was she was doing communication tips. And I just really, um, she talked a lot about empathy, and I just really loved all the educational information she made. And I think at that point she was selling, um, a membership.
Wave Wyld: And then I know she took a break, um, quite a while, at least a year from social media and she came back and she's very [00:45:00] familiar with Tik Tok. So she's creating in Tik Tok and she's posting to Tik Tok. However, she is crushing it on Reels right now. And it's just, it's fascinating sometimes why it's the same contents not hitting on Tik Tok, but it is on Reels.
Wave Wyld: It just. It just happens like there's different audiences, different algorithms, but what she is doing that really impresses me and why I think she's had so much success is she's just showing up so authentically herself, like her energy just radiates through the screen. So what she's doing now are style tips and her style tips are all about Using the clothes that you already have in your closet or shopping second hand.
Wave Wyld: This is kind of a big topic right now. Inflation is, is a huge topic all over social media. It's affecting us all over, [00:46:00] well in Canada and in the US. I'm in Canada. Uh, so I see it a lot on my, on my social media. But I think, you know, part of that really helps because there's a lot of people that, um, we're very aware of consumerism, fast fashion is also another big topic.
Wave Wyld: There's a lot of education around that. So I think she's really hit this kind of audience of women who are like her, who want to show up. Um, confidently and in the clothes like and create some sort of style with the clothes. They really, really have and she shares her mission and her values a lot. And again, I think people really connect with that and she's just being so authentic.
Wave Wyld: In everything she does, and it's just come, like I said, her energy just radiates like you can see in the way she presents herself on camera. It's just attracting people. Um, so, uh, that's one one success story. Now she is [00:47:00] doing, uh, consulting. And she's created a membership where she helps people, um, create their capsule wardrobe.
Wave Wyld: Um, so that is, that's one story of success. Maybe in a, in a niche where you might feel like there's even saturated and like, Oh, there's so many fashion accounts. There's so many people doing style tips, but it's almost kind of niche. And I always recommend this too. I, for years I've been saying it is so good.
Wave Wyld: To niche within the niche, even when it comes to my niche of like Tik Tok coaching or Tik Tok expertise. There are Tik Tok coaches that only work with like pet accounts, right? Or Tik Tok coaches. I've seen ones that only work with artists and musicians to help them get big on Tik Tok and promote their music career.
Wave Wyld: Because they have more background experience in the music industry. So even, you know, being in a broad niche, it can be really helpful to have a unique niche and then really educate your values or your mission through [00:48:00] that. So You will never be able to sell whatever it is that you're selling.
Wave Wyld: Think about what do you stand for? What is your ultimate mission of why you're doing what you're doing? Simon Sinek, it all starts with why, right? What is your why? So, um, yeah, I hope that that gives you something to, To chew on.
Joanna Newton: I, I love that. And I think one thing we talk a lot about on this podcast are two things. We talk a lot about authenticity, like showing up in the world, in your business, on social media, in your content, in whatever you do authentically. Um, As well as your mindset, right? Like what is happening in your mind?
Joanna Newton: And those two things are so important. Whether you're showing up in your social content, whether you're going to a sales call, whether you're running a team meeting, all of those things, so much of your success comes back to, are you being authentically you and do you have like the right mindset? Like, are [00:49:00] you thinking in the right vein?
Joanna Newton: Cause you're talking about this client who just like. She's attracting people with her mindset and with her authenticity and people want to be a part of that and I think Having that come across on camera is a special like it's a skill You have to learn because you can have it in real life like one you have to learn how to exude it in real life But then you also have to learn how to like put that out on Camera, which is a completely different thing
Wave Wyld: Yeah. And thinking just very specifically about one thing that she did is that of course she does feel a little awkward on camera. So she, I don't know, didn't have the right tripod or something and all of her videos, she kind of bent over and like kind of bent down to the camera and that kind of almost became like a signature thing for her.
Wave Wyld: Um, she's like, Oh, I don't have that type, that fancy tripod or whatever. So I'm just going to film it this way and here you can see what I'm wearing kind of thing, and just. [00:50:00] Just being herself, like who cares about perfection, right? Nobody on social media is looking for perfection. So again, you know, it fascinates me that it's really what's helped her be successful is just her messaging and her authenticity.
Michelle Pualani: With this important conversation on mindset, one of the things I think that underlies our inability to take action in creating or when we're comparing ourselves and looking at other creators, seeing what they're doing, thinking, God, I could never be like that. No, I can't do that. Wow. They're doing that so well.
Michelle Pualani: We internalize a lot of these things. things and it's difficult to put ourselves out there into the world, be vulnerable and show up as our true selves. Maybe some of us are afraid of being seen. Maybe some of us are afraid of the success that could come with being seen by so many people and, and moving them through your funnel and actually having them get into your products and programs.
Michelle Pualani: There are all these internal thoughts that are kind of working against us some of the time in [00:51:00] okay, we know the strategy, we know we've got to get the hook down, we've scripted the thing, we've set it up, but we're not actually putting ourselves out there, we're not actually doing the things that we say we're going to do, or we get in front of the camera and then we film it.
Michelle Pualani: freeze or we get nervous or we're thinking about how does my hair look and what is my face doing and am I wearing the right thing and hey, that's a big mess behind me. Should I totally like reframe this? Can you just talk really briefly about how you have maybe overcome some of those things in the past in order to get to where you are or how you deal with and navigate them today in order to feel confident, to feel successful at what you're doing and not let that internal narrative and dialogue kind of keep you from.
Michelle Pualani: Doing the activities and doing the things that you know, you're meant to do, as well as kind of dealing with the external aspect of that as well, feedback and potential criticism that comes along with putting yourself out into the world and letting hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people see you as you are, quote unquote, authentically.
Wave Wyld: Well, my friend. Previous [00:52:00] business failed because I compared myself to others. Um, big time. So I was, uh, I did, uh, photography for many years and so much of my inner dialogue was like, Oh, look at those, this person's photos. They're so beautiful. They they're so much better than me. I could never be as good as them.
Wave Wyld: And, um, they're gonna, you know, get all the jobs and the way they use light is So much. I don't have that natural. I don't have that ability to, you know, work with light or whatever the dialogue was in my head. It held me back so much and it affected my self esteem and confidence. And that business ultimately failed because of that.
Wave Wyld: And I've had coaches since then, uh, who have said to me, like, you have to keep your, blinders on and be very aware of comparing yourself to other people in your industry. So, uh, I would say with TikTok, I've tried to do keep [00:53:00] my, you know, stay in my own lane as much as possible. Um, and stay focused on what I'm doing to move the needle forward in my business.
Wave Wyld: Um, that's kind of the best thing is it's a lot of mindset, really all comes down to mindset. It's the key to success in everything in life, really. So it's practicing those skills, being very aware of when you're having those thoughts or feelings, and then being able to give yourself that little pep talk and step back and be like, okay, I noticed that.
Wave Wyld: You know, I did this. Why am I doing this? You know, um, and choosing to do something else that's going to help you feel more confident. So for me, in order for me to be really confident in my skills as like a TikTok coach, I started off just practicing a lot before I officially announced some sort of course or high ticket [00:54:00] offer.
Wave Wyld: I was just doing account audits and I think I did about 400 of these. I would do a lot of them on live streaming and that's what gave me the confidence. to teach what I teach and do what I do because I then was able to see the most common mistakes and I would see patterns in what people were doing and the problems that people were really having.
Wave Wyld: So then I felt very confident in that I knew what I had to offer was working because then I would test out strategies with people and try different things. And I was like, okay, I know this works. So that is what personally helped me be more confident in what I do. Um, but. Definitely have had a lot of past issues with the comparing myself to others and a bit of that imposter syndrome at the same time, which is just so, so common for female entrepreneurs.
Joanna Newton: Really appreciate you sharing that with us. Um, you know, you're speaking right to the heart [00:55:00] of what we talk about and stand for here at the Her First podcast. And as we kind of start to wrap up our conversation, I'd love to know, Wave, if you have any sort of final thoughts or final tips that you would like to share with our listeners.
Wave Wyld: Uh, yeah, well, I can kind of keep it focused on, on the same theme. I know like if you are scared of showing up and being on camera, the best thing, and this is what I did was to was just speak to my camera through videos, just taking videos of myself speaking to camera and then rewatching those videos and noticing the thoughts that I had.
Wave Wyld: So if the thoughts that I had were like, um, I don't like the way my voice sounds, or my nose looks really big, or, um, I, you know, I look really ugly or whatever those thoughts were, I would write those thoughts down, and then I would turn them around into an affirmation. [00:56:00] And so if it was, you know, I don't like my voice, I would, you know, maybe change that to, I am learning to love the way my voice sounds on camera.
Wave Wyld: and repeating that to myself to become more confident to showing up. Um, so I hope that can be helpful if, if you're kind of feeling scared to show up. Um, my last bit of advice would be don't ever take anything personal from a stranger on the internet. They don't know you, they don't know the story, um, just block, delete, whatever you have to do to keep your space, safe space.
Wave Wyld: They, yeah, you just cannot take anything personal from a stranger on the internet.
Michelle Pualani: My heart just melted when you said that affirmation because it's so true. We are our own worst critics and we just pick at ourselves, especially when we're on camera and putting ourselves out into the world, creating a personal brand, which can be incredibly challenging, very vulnerable and put you in [00:57:00] compromised positions too.
Michelle Pualani: have those things that come up in your mind, those self talk moments, those thoughts that kind of like tear at you. So such an important reminder. And one thing that I've been centering on and focusing to is, is that about me? It's about how I'm making the consumer feel. So whoever's watching that, what do I want to convey to them?
Michelle Pualani: How can I make it and center it so much around them, be in service to their thoughts, their beliefs, their trajectory, their goals, life and what it is that they're doing and how I'm impacting them and serving them in the best way that I know how, then it can take some of that pressure off. It doesn't matter what I look like.
Michelle Pualani: It doesn't matter how things are presented as long as I'm invested in how I'm navigating our conversation one to one and how I'm making them feel through my language, through my presence, through my energy, and then translating that through the camera. Haven't nailed it yet, but it's something that I'm definitely working on personally.
Michelle Pualani: So thank you so much for joining us today, Wave. Where can our listeners [00:58:00] find you? Where can they hang out with you? Where can they learn more about your services and how you support personal brands, coaches, creators grow, have success in the TikTok world.
Wave Wyld: Yeah, well, you can find me on all my, all the social media platforms. My username is just Just my name at wave wild w a v e w y l d. Uh, you can check out more about my services. I have a membership do consulting on my website, which is again, my name, wave wild. com.
Wave Wyld: If you have any questions, you can slide into my DMS. Uh, and I'm happy to help.
Joanna Newton: Well, thank you so much for being with us here today. I know I learned a lot, um, and I think my, my big takeaway will be to think more about how to show up authentically on this podcast, on my social, and just really be the kind of person who magnetizes my ideal client. Um, and I hope as a listener, you've been inspired a little bit by what Wave had to share..
Wave Wyld: Happy [00:59:00] creating.
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