Diane Gehart: [00:00:00] And where I think the mass, the vast majority of us get off track is we're like, I'm going to get in shape.
Diane Gehart: It's January 1st. I'm going to start exercising an hour a day or so. 30 minutes a day, right? And we're like great for two weeks and then you get sick and then there's a crisis at work or at home, you know, and, and then you get off track, right? And so you miss a week and then you go and beat yourself up
โ[00:01:00]
Joanna Newton: Today's episode features our, her first podcast regular, Dr. Diane Gayhart, founder of Therapy That Works. Diane has worked with nearly 250, 000 clients as a therapist or supervisor, and put that knowledge of professional training into over 12 books. She's also the only person to write a leading textbook in both counseling and family therapy theories.
Joanna Newton: In our last episode with Diane, we talked all about her experience giving a TED Talk, and today we're going to talk about her TED Talk topic, because that, I decided to say I was going to say TED Talk topic, which is fun to say. Welcome back, Diane.
Diane Gehart: Thank you so much for having me. I'm just thrilled to be here.
Joanna Newton: Now, for us, we just finished up. Talking about your TED [00:02:00] talk, but for our listeners, it's been a couple of weeks, um, since they heard about that, but we are talking all about what Diane talked about on the TED talk stage. We will link the whole talk below in the show notes. Um, but today we are talking about.
Joanna Newton: So,
Joanna Newton: I read it, I read most of it, um, you brought up a really interesting statistic right at the beginning and I'd love you to share that with our listeners.
Diane Gehart: according to the world health organization, at any given moment, 13 percent of the world's population, um, is experiencing a mental health issue. And there's also been a 13 percent rise in mental health issues worldwide over the past decade. Okay. So. That's that unlucky number 13 that I start the talk
Joanna Newton: Yeah. Unlucky number 13. And that, when I read that, that was so interesting [00:03:00] because. You know, if you're experiencing issues with your mental health, it's really easy to feel alone, right? We tend to, as humans, put on our, our best face, right? We're posting the best moments on social media. We're showing up to events, all put together and taken care of.
Joanna Newton: We show up to work like everything's fine, but you never really know what someone is experiencing behind the scenes. Right? When they're home, when they're alone, with their, with their closest families. You never really know what's going on. And there are more people struggling with their mental health than you, than you probably think.
Diane Gehart: Yeah, it's a billion people on the planet at any given moment, a billion people.
Joanna Newton: Wow. I know you're, you know, you're passionate about this, but you know, you talk in your TED talk about the fact that our current like mental health system is [00:04:00] failing us right now. Right? We're, we're not getting the support that we need. Like, why is that happening?
Diane Gehart: There are a lot of reasons and it's, you know, I, I do really believe that mental health professionals are absolutely giving it their all. They're doing their best. It's really, it is tough work. Um, but there are a variety of, um, reasons that I talk about in the talk. And the first one is that mental health itself has become a Um, very fragmented.
Diane Gehart: There are over 500 different therapeutic approaches. So A, how is any mental health professional supposed to get better, I mean, formally trained in more than a couple of those? It's extremely rare. It costs thousands of dollars to be properly trained in one of those. Okay. And it's a relatively low income profession given the level of training you need to A, get it because you need a doctorate or a master's degree and then to maintain it, 10 percent of everything you make goes into just.
Diane Gehart: Getting more training, maintaining everything, your license and such. So [00:05:00] it's impossible for clinicians to feel caught up. And then if you're a client looking for the right therapist, it's like, wow, you know, I, I liken it to looking for a needle in the haystack. It's really hard, um, to find the right clinician.
Diane Gehart: So that's one of the biggest things, um, that I see wrong with our system is It's been too fragmented, um, in terms of how we train. And so it's not working for clients. It's not working for therapists. So, you know, another big piece of it is that we are just now, um, being able to start making connections in a meaningful way between the physical body and physical Conditions that actually either exacerbate or actually cause mental health, but appeared to be mental health issues and not physical health issues.
Diane Gehart: And we don't even have a professional that, you know, you can reliably go to who can actually diagnose whether your mental health, let's say anxiety [00:06:00] is a good example, whether that's more mental or physiological or, or a combination of both. That doesn't exist. actually really exist. You know, and another huge problem we have in mental health is that we are decades behind taking the research that we have and putting it in to practice, um, with everyday clinicians.
Diane Gehart: And we're much slower, decades slower than physical health and doing that in mental health. And then of course you just have social media where, you know, and social media, if you're not licensed, you can say whatever you want to. Licensed people can't do that. We don't get away with it. You know, so I have to train my students, you know, you have to have, you know, a peer reviewed research, you know, clinical trial behind any advice you give, but yet, you know, if you're not licensed, you can go on, you Instagram and just spout out whatever worked for you.
Diane Gehart: the listener has a, or the viewer has a connection, you know, a relationship with that person. You trust them. It's, you [00:07:00] know, it's a case study of one, right? Which means nothing in the professional mental health world, but it's so captivating. Those personal success stories really captivate us. We get pulled in and we're going to try it.
Diane Gehart: Whether or not there's any evidence that that's going to work for
Joanna Newton: and I know today we're talking about microhabits and mental health, but you bring up a really interesting point about this holistic view of wellness, right? Like, like when you think just about mental health and understanding the connection between the physical and the mental, like I've really experienced this in just like the The, the medical health world because I deal with a chronic illness and it's so hard to figure out and treat because there's so many factors going on and there's different special, like there's different specialists and different things and they all have their own way of, of [00:08:00] treat, treating it.
Joanna Newton: Right, like technically I work with a hematologist, but I have a, because I have a blood disorder, but it's also like an immune issue and And we're not solving anything.
Diane Gehart: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And that happens all the time. I think even more so in mental health when you're talking about anxiety or depression. Um, so yeah, it's, it's, I think it's a huge, huge issue, both in physical health. I've experienced it too with my own personal health issues and family's health issues, but also, um, with mental health, it's, it's like the wild west out there.
Joanna Newton: Yeah. So we know we have a problem. You know, we know that, you know, people are almost, we have a mental health kind of crisis on our hands, right? Like people are experiencing mental health issues. The system isn't quite set up, you know, even though there's amazing practitioners out there and amazing therapists and people in this space that are doing amazing work.
Joanna Newton: The system as a whole isn't really set up [00:09:00] to help us, Yeah. Yeah. you know, really move forward. So what's the solution?
Diane Gehart: Well, I, I offer a twofold solution in my talk. And so, you know, one part is fixing mental health and how we train people and, and the other part is empowering everyone with simple evidence based strategies. Wow. My talk is coming right back to me.
Joanna Newton: gonna give the whole talk.
Diane Gehart: It doesn't leave your psyche once you do one of these. Um, but to give everyone, I mean, there are simple evidence based strategies that really do lay in.
Diane Gehart: non negotiable. Everyone must be, have these, you know, habits for a healthy living. And the research is just so strong in this area. Um, so, so the second, I'm actually half of the actual time of my talk, I talk about what the everyday person can do to boost their mental health for lifelong wellness. Cause that's, I'm here for lifelong wellness, not just treating this current depression or anxiety.
Diane Gehart: There [00:10:00] really is, you know, simple things everyone should be doing, needs to be doing if you want to be mentally healthy for the rest of your life.
Joanna Newton: I know I've been reading, um, Joe Dispenza's Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself, really made me think about my habits and my Like automated responses of things and some of those things are good for like some of those Automatic habits are really really good for me and some of them aren't so great for me, right?
Joanna Newton: and I like I think about the The muscle memory habit I have of when I pick up my phone like I pick up my cell phone and I immediately check The, like the notifications, the view counts of every social platform I'm on. And because of the work that I do, it's a lot of, like, it's a lot of social platforms.
Joanna Newton: My daughter has a YouTube channel. I have a [00:11:00] podcast. My company has a YouTube channel. I work on YouTube channels for clients. I have my own personal, like, it's a lot. So I get on my phone and I like check everything and like, why? So, you know, it might take, it might take me. Five, 10 minutes to do, but then I do that multiple times throughout the day. I don't need that in my life. I could get a lot. I could, I could check them all once a day, right? Like I could check them all once a day and it would make zero difference to the outcome of those channels. And so I've been thinking, I'm glad that we're having this conversation because I've been thinking about sort of some of my negative like habits and like how to break them um, and how to replace them with. better habits that actually bring more joy, more wellness, more sanity to my life.
Joanna Newton: So I know in your talk, you talked about the five [00:12:00] pillars of wellness. And I think I actually remember when we had you on the first time we like hinted at this and we were like, we have to talk about all five pillars on our next, on our next time we have you. Can you share what those are?
Diane Gehart: Yes. Yes. And so, so the five pillars of wellness, um, it's something I've developed and And it just really summarizes massive amounts of decades of research and none of these are gonna shock you. Okay? Nothing is shocking here. So the first um, pillar is a balanced, healthy diet, you know, made up of mostly whole foods 80 to 90 percent of the time.
Diane Gehart: No one's shocked here, right? Um, the second is getting regular exercise. The United States, we talk about 150 minutes as a general recommendation, ideally outdoors, cause there's a lot of great research behind that. The third one is getting high quality, regular sleep. shocking either. The fourth is, um, to [00:13:00] cultivate a set of supportive relationships and communities.
Diane Gehart: And the research behind supportive relationships and communities is really stunning, both in terms of what it does for our mental health, our physical health longevity. It's, It cannot be overstated. And I think at this time in history, especially, um, coming out of the pandemic, many people's social networks are very fragmented.
Diane Gehart: Um, there are a lot more people cutting off family members and such. And so it's really more important than ever to be looking at that. And then the last, uh, pillar is what we would, what I call healthy coping. So, this is having a, a real concrete set of coping strategies for stress that involved more than just a margarita on the beach.
Diane Gehart: So it's like meditation, journaling, meditation. Um, you know, having an, you know, an exercise routine that might be boosting your mental health, but having real concrete things you do, um, besides reach for [00:14:00] substances, you know, when you're having a really tough day or going into denial. Some people just like to go into denial and, you know, binge watch something or go on their social media and get numb.
Diane Gehart: So I, you know, we need healthy coping that actually helps you process the stress. Yeah,
Joanna Newton: all of those things are basically free. Well, you know, like, like eating whole healthy foods. Yes, you have to buy the food, but you're buying food anyway, right? So replacing, uh, you know, your, your less great eating habits with whole health, you know, whole foods that are going to promote your body, your growth, your wellbeing is, is free, uh, sleeping more.
Diane Gehart: yeah.
Joanna Newton: That actually probably saves you money, right? Because you're not going out all night
Joanna Newton: doing things you shouldn't do. Um, you know, getting outside. Like, you can go for a walk. You can get physical [00:15:00] activity by going outside. You don't have to have a fancy gym membership or anything like that. You can work out outside, you know, at home.
Joanna Newton: Building relationships, again, doesn't cost money developing. Yeah, maybe you gotta buy a journal or a book about meditation so you can learn about it. But none of those are super fancy, super expensive, hard to start. Um, and I think a lot of times when people aren't well, we look to big solutions. We want that like magic wand that is going to fix everything for us when there are habits we can make of our own that are gonna Increase wellness for us.
Diane Gehart: That is such a great point because yeah, all of this is simple. It is very low cost or free, but the real challenge is getting yourself to do it.
Joanna Newton: say you have a bad coping strategy, something bad happens to you. And you, push yourself into work, right? So you have a [00:16:00] bad experience, you're unhappy. And you're like, like, I'm just gonna like, Check all my work email and answer all my work email, right?
Joanna Newton: When you have a bad coping strategy that kind of makes you feel good, it's really easy to just do that. So how would you recommend someone start to develop habits that are going to help their wellness?
Diane Gehart: Yeah, and I haven't so I've been helping people change for over 30 years. I've been a you know therapist all this time And what I have learned after helping tens of thousands of people try to change is that you have to keep it small. And where I think the mass, the vast majority of us get off track is we're like, I'm going to get in shape.
Diane Gehart: It's January 1st. I'm going to start exercising an hour a day or so. 30 minutes a day, right? And we're like great for two weeks and then you get sick and then there's a crisis at work or at home, you know, and, and then you get off track, [00:17:00] right? And so you miss a week and then you go and beat yourself up and then you're like, don't have the motivation.
Diane Gehart: You can't get back into the rhythm. I mean, you just look at the statistics with, you know, um, New Year's resolutions and, and the vast majority of people said, you know, resolution and have given up by the end of January. So that is where this concept of micro habits come in. And so micro habits are tiny versions of the bigger goal.
Diane Gehart: And the reason micro habits work so well is that they shut out and shut down the inner critic. And so when you shut down that, you know, inner critic, you're able to keep momentum moving forward. You're able to keep going, keep building on it. And it really is. I mean, it blows me away at how well these micro habits work.
Joanna Newton: give me an example of a, like a small micro habit that someone could do [00:18:00] to help themselves move in a better direction.
Diane Gehart: So your typical microhabit is going to be one to five minutes of the larger goal. So let's say your, your goal was to exercise for 30, 45, 60 minutes a day, five days a week, you know, follow the national standards, get back into shape. And so, you know, it's fine, I guess, if you want to try to go for the 30 minutes, but what I tell people to do is just start.
Diane Gehart: by scheduling five minutes a day. I have them anchor it to something they're already doing, like their morning coffee, and just start with five minutes a day. And if you feel like doing more, if that's great, but just set a timer and do five minutes a day. And so, so that could be, and with the lowest, I want that micro habit to be on your worst day with no energy, no motivation.
Diane Gehart: What can you still get yourself to do? What's the one thing you can get yourself to do? So my favorite thing to do is most of us have a cup of coffee or tea in the morning. It takes about [00:19:00] five minutes for it to boil, right? And so I just say take those five minutes and do counter pushups and counter exercises or sit down and journal for five minutes or you can even work on your finances for five minutes, right?
Diane Gehart: Go in, balance your checkbook or look at your credit card statement, whatever. You take five minutes while the tea water or coffee is boiling and Do five minutes towards your goal. You could be working on your TED talk. You could be writing a book I do I speed write my book So I do I call it speed writing five minutes working on my book go on with the rest of my day And so that creates this incredible momentum and the days where you have more you can do more And the days when you have less I I really push my because I use this both with my therapy You the therapists are and professionals who are in my, um, my training courses where I teach them how to use micro habits with their clients.
Diane Gehart: I have them do it on themselves for to improve their own lives. I do this [00:20:00] with my clients. I also have something called the placeholder goal, which is So five minutes was your goal. You're having a really bad day. Like you didn't sleep last night. You know, you're fighting with your partner or your kids or whatever.
Diane Gehart: You're just kind of in a dark place. I want you to do 30 to 60 seconds of whatever it is. And in my Ted talk, I share the story of this client I had, who was in, is really struggling, um, with very severe depression. And I had, you know, we'd done the five minutes of exercise goal and we had the, you know, do, do the placeholder, you know, and they went ahead and they got one counter pushup done while the coffee was boiling.
Diane Gehart: And what happened was it was a total, they had this huge insight. Um, and when they did that one counter pushup, they just really connected with this sense of strength and a sense of self they hadn't experienced in a long time. So no, [00:21:00] the one counter pushup did not get them totally into shape, but it was this huge aha moment, this huge just insight.
Diane Gehart: Insight that enabled them to make major life changes that they hadn't been able to make with all the standard treatment and medication, there is something in keeping a promise to yourself, that level of integrity that just ignite something in us that is incredibly powerful.
Diane Gehart: And I've seen this happen with numerous clients. as well as my own clients. Um, in terms of what that does to keep that promise to yourself, keep the momentum going quiet, that inner critic, and like truly miracles happen down the road.
Joanna Newton: It's so true. Those little steps can like transform your life. For me, I, my 2023 was really, really tough in a lot of ways. I started the year. doing two full time jobs. [00:22:00] You know, I quit my full time job to run my business full time, which was a transition, a financial transition, uh, you know, stress, life, how do I figure that out transition?
Joanna Newton: But all in, in, In that all time found out that I have like a chronic illness, right? So I discovered I had, we weren't sure if it was chronic when I discovered it in January, but you know, never went away, therefore now chronic. And that was a lot. And you know, it, it made me honestly, you know, I was on prednisone at points because I needed to be, that kind of makes you gain weight, feel certain ways, have mood fluctuations.
Joanna Newton: You know, I gained weight. If I tried to lose weight, it would affect, like, my labs that I needed, you know, that I was trying to improve. Like, it was a whole thing. So, honestly, a big part of me just, like, I gave up when it came to my physical, [00:23:00] you know, my weight, my, my exercise, all of those things. I was just kind of like, I'm going to like, fuck it.
Joanna Newton: Like,
Diane Gehart: Yup.
Joanna Newton: if I, if I can't be well, I'm going to just eat and not exercise. And it's not like I was lazy. I worked. I did all of those things, but I wasn't doing the things I needed that were right for my body. Right. And, and. Medicine wasn't working to make me feel better and I just towards the end of the year hit this point was like, I can't live like this isn't good for me.
Joanna Newton: Do you know what I mean? Like, if I can't fix this chronic illness, maybe I can still feel better, right? And I started super small, like one thing at a time. You know, and, and the first thing I did for my, my physical health was my Christmas present to myself was a standing desk and a walking pad. And I said, woohoo, I said, I'm going to Walk on the walking pad, and it wasn't for five minutes, but it was [00:24:00] like, I'm going to walk on the walking pad while I answer my emails in the morning.
Joanna Newton: I answer emails every morning. So I said, I'm going to catch up on my email and walk on, on the walking pad. That one change led to so many other changes. I feel better, you know, I'm, you know, lost the prednisone weight, like not that weight is the biggest indicator. Right. But I wasn't happy. you know, where I was.
Joanna Newton: And it led to me doing better things for myself, for my mental health, for my physical health. I have more energy. Even though I'm still dealing with my chronic illness, I don't have nearly as many symptoms as I was having. You know, I feel like I can have a full full life, you know, even though I'm dealing with this other thing.
Diane Gehart: Wow. That is such a beautiful illustration of this concept. And it's really, if you could, it's the consistency more than the length or intensity. [00:25:00] And, and I think our culture gets very obsessed with super intense, like exercise in particular, or diets. We have super intense versions of those and super strict things.
Diane Gehart: And, you know, even when you see people get into mindfulness and it's like mindfulness is not supposed to be a competition sport, but you look at America, most people kind of treat it like it's a competition sport. So we have this intensity, you know, in many cultures, America being one of them, where it's like, it's 110%, you know, give going extreme or nothing.
Diane Gehart: And that is really an unhealthy and unsustainable way of, um, of, of approaching all of these different five pillars of wellness.
Joanna Newton: Because then we, we, if your goal is too big and too unrealistic, you fail and then you give up. And then you don't do it at all.
Diane Gehart: That's right. Yeah. And that's the quieting the inner critic. You know, I have a fun story with mindfulness. When I first started practicing mindfulness it's almost 40 years ago. People were not, [00:26:00] who's counting the right. Um, you know, I used to set a timer to like get myself to go for the full five minutes or two minutes or three minutes.
Diane Gehart: And you know, because it was hard to sit down and focus for that long. And now that I've been doing this for decades, I literally have to set a timer to get myself to get up and start the rest of my day. Cause otherwise I'll sit there for 30, 45 minutes, easy, just meditating cause it's pleasurable. I mean, I'm enjoying it.
Diane Gehart: I'm focused. I feel, you know, and I just get into the zone and I have to set a timer now to get me to go up. So obviously if I tried to meditate. 45 minutes in the beginning that would have been torture and I would have given up. But if you keep up with these things, you know, I now meditate every day and I exercise every single morning unless I have to be at work early and I don't think about it.
Diane Gehart: It takes zero effort. It is just, part of my routine and it feels very weird if I don't do those things. And so it's really, it's the, you have to play the long game with the five pillars and it's this, you know, in the beginning, yeah, getting [00:27:00] myself to get up and run every morning was a ton of work and took timers and you know, felt like a drudgery.
Diane Gehart: And now it's like, I don't feel like myself unless I do that, but it's because I've been doing it for decades and that's the habit I've created. And these might, if you can, where you started at the beginning, looking at our habits. that we create and when you consciously start shaping them in tiny ways, I think that's the key.
Diane Gehart: Whatever habit you want to change, right? Start with three baby carrots, not like, you know, throwing away half of your current diet. Just add, you know, a few baby carrots, uh, you know, a few leaves of lettuce. Literally, I have a very picky eater. My youngest son is super, super picky. And, you know, getting him to eat like three leaves of butter lettuce is how I started.
Diane Gehart: And now he eats a full salad every night. No dressing still. He's so picky, won't put dressing. But he'll eat a plate full of lettuce and greens and vegetables with no salad dressing. But we started with three leaves, you know, of butter lettuce.
Joanna Newton: Yeah, I think that's, [00:28:00] that's so important, you know, and, and I think recognizing, I think sometimes when you think about habits, you think of like healthy ones, right? Good ones for you. And you don't realize that you likely have negative habits that, that are keeping you from those healthy habits, right? And you were talking earlier, I think that the fifth pillar about having good, positive coping strategies.
Joanna Newton: And I think a lot of us have developed negative coping strategies, right? We don't have good coping skills, but we do things to cope, whether that's you. you know, a substance or eating or distracting yourself with Netflix, distracting yourself with work, like, and we think, Oh, I'm just coping. So, so that's good.
Joanna Newton: You think, Oh, it's good. I I'm watching my Netflix because that's helping me cope with this problem. And we assume that that is good, but they might actually be preventing us from, [00:29:00] you know, our own wellness, reaching our goals or any of the things that we, we want to do with life.
Diane Gehart: yeah, yeah. And those are some of the hardest, you know, habits to break, but I hate thinking of it as breaking a habit. I like thinking that adding, using micro habits to add, just, you know, instead of trying to break a bad habit, most of us are going to be successful more quickly if we start adding, um, a healthy habit.
Diane Gehart: So Netflix binger when you get stressed or you, you know, stressed Scrolling, right? Doom scrolling. Um, whether it's news or social media, um, You know, just adding 60 seconds of mindfulness or 60 seconds of just journaling what emotions you felt today or 60 seconds of gratitude journaling, right? 60 seconds, then you can do your, your thing.
Joanna Newton: Yeah.
Diane Gehart: But it's amazing how that 60 seconds just shifts the stream of thought, shifts the stream of behaviors and like [00:30:00] opens possibilities for new things that were just, would never have been possible. And the trick is you can normally get yourself, convince yourself to do 60 seconds of something before you get to have your reward, which, you know, might be, you know, then, you know, you're a Netflix binge.
Joanna Newton: Yeah. And then you might find that 60 seconds, like you, like you experienced with meditation, you know, your five minutes turns into, I need to stop. I have, I have to tell myself to move on and get the things done on my list. Right. Like you might get to that point and that if you're not in that place, that might seem so impossible.
Joanna Newton: You're probably, if you're listening, you're like, no way. But you know, I'm experienced, I've experienced that in my own life. You've experienced in your own life and also your, you know, the people who work with you as well, like experience the benefits of that.
Diane Gehart: Absolutely. Absolutely. And so it's starting small and it's the consistency. So being [00:31:00] small allows you to be consistent and that's where like the lifelong change, the whole trajectory, you know, shifts.
Joanna Newton: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing a lot of your TED Talk with us. Um, Is there anything else about creating microhabits that you want to share before we wrap up?
Diane Gehart: Well, I think the key really is, you know, to a, I mean, don't start it until you're sure you're going to commit to it. And you, it's a, it's a longterm commitment. This is like a longterm relationship with micro habits and, and keep it simple, you know, attach it to something you're already doing. And then slowly what you're going to find is that that time will naturally want to be longer and you can do it in that five minutes or move it to a different place.
Diane Gehart: Part of your day, depending on your circumstances, but then you can start doing what we [00:32:00] call habit stacking, where you add a couple of habits to that, right? And so, and once you actually get good with this five minute block of time or 10, 15 minutes, whatever you can carve out in the morning, once you get good at that, Like you can use that for everything in your life to build positive relationships, right?
Diane Gehart: To write a book, write a Ted talk, um, start a business, um, work on your health, you know, every, you can do anything. And once you have that five minute placeholder, you can just start switching in and out things. But once you create that, it's like your ability to achieve your life dreams really, I mean, just increases exponentially because you can do almost anything if you just start with that five minute micro habit.
Joanna Newton: Amazing. Thank you for sharing that and thank you for what you do for the general public, for your clients, like Diana's out there doing the work. every day on YouTube, in her [00:33:00] courses, all of those things. We will link her YouTube channel, her TED talk, all of the things below so you can stay connected with her and learn more from her about how to, you know, create wellness in your life.
Diane Gehart: Thank you so much for having me.
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What is one thing you can do today to prioritize you in business and life?
